The queer people who are buying guns to prepare for Trump’s America
The queer people who are buying guns to prepare for Trump’s America
Since Donald Trump’s reelection in November, non-traditional gun groups across the city and country have seen a flood of interest.
You're viewing a single thread.
Cool, let's arm both sides... The solution is always moar guns!
When you're preparing to fight a fascist regime, more guns is the solution.
Been working out so well with around 50k Americans dying every year needlessly. We are also clocking in at around one thousand child deaths every year. Japan had zero child deaths from guns this year, and the last, and the last, ad nauseam.
I know you gun nutters love your defense fantasies, but arming the gays isn't going to solve any problems and will result in more dead people
We already have more guns than people. How many moar guns until we are finally safe!?
But we’re not talking specifically about protecting children here, I’d agree with you that less guns are better to those ends. For fighting fascism though? It took a lot of gun deaths to unseat Hitler and Mussolini
Sure in a hypothetical alternate reality where the only way to defeat evil is to shoot it. Unfortunately we live in the real world and it just means more dead people.
Maybe I’m feeling cornered, vulnerable, angry, as is often the case with these things. But how do you suggest we protect ourselves and our allies from an evil that strengthens itself off of your sickness, your hunger, your homelessness, and has absolutely no qualms about meeting you with violence and coming up with an excuse later?
I would not suggest purchasing a gun if you are feeling cornered, vulnerable, and angry. Fear is the mind killer.
I would suggest reaching out to others, talking, getting political, and organizing.
Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you'd like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
India would like a word. I have a very broad view. The difference is people don't always have to murder each other. In fact, murdering each other rarely brings about the kind a change we need in our society.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance. Tomorrow you can go back to being murderous gun nutter.
Dr Martin Luther King Jr bought himself an arsenal. You may not have heard about that
"If the Negro succumbs to the temptation of using violence in his struggle for justice, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and his chief legacy to the future will be an endless rain of meaningless chaos."
I heard his words and understood the significance. You pretend he would support a literal genocide on the American people through gun violence. It is sickening really.
When diplomacy fails, you're left with two choices:
Violence or giving up.
Diplomacy is proving to be ineffective. That leaves only the two above options.
I also wouldn't advise a gun. Explosives are way more effective.
Why stop there, surely there is something worse. Perhaps a personal nuclear weapon. Nothing too big of course, but just big enough to let's say make everyone regret having messed with you.
Think what a civil society would develop if everyone had one of these. On a side note, I am taking investments on a hot new uranium mine prospect.
My friend, if you nuke mar a Lago at the right time people will sing songs of your noble deeds for centuries to come.
What is the right time though. Would it be on a Friday for maximum shock or on a Monday so the news would have all week to discuss it.
And who are these people who would sing the praises. Most of all what did Mar a Lago do to deserve this. Maybe they hovered their finger over the "button" looking menacingly at you.
But yes, we all like noble deeds and to be known for centuries sounds great. Have you ever thought of opening up your own suicide bomber school.
In this case evil is coming to shoot you.
Trumpers killed exactly zero gays today. Meanwhile over one hundred Americans died of gun violence including a couple of children.
This is the difference between your fantasy and my reality.
The "reality" where fascism backs down when you ask it nice?
There is a difference between a hundred dead bodies everyday and your revenge fantasy.
Don't even pretend you actually care about human life when we have a thousand dead children to lay on the altar of moar guns every year.
Don't pretend you care about fascism if you're setting aside proven tools to deal with it.
Meh, the truth is we lost a Vietnam of Americans to gun deaths this year. 50k people dead. That happened every year now the last twenty years
That is one million Americans dead. Please tell all those dead people and all the people who lost their loved ones that we need these guns to protect against facism.
We have moar guns than any other nation. We have moar fucking guns than people. Yet we are surrounded by fascists and need moar guns!
I mean at some point you just need a stupidity check.
You expected it to happen immediately?
Pretty cool suggesting at risk groups should stay vulnerable when their enemies are armed.
Interesting position you're taking.
General gun violence is unlike targeted political violence against minorities, so things like school shooting and gang violence stats mean nothing.
Comparing to Japan is irrelevant as there isn't an armed and empowered group publicly discussing hunting at risk folks there.
Pretending you care about human life when a hundred people die everyday from preventable gun violence is an interesting position you have taken.
Imagined political gun violence in your head or actual dead people. Clearly your imagination must take priority.
Oh it is not just Japan of course. But you knew that.
I never said the general preservation of human life was what I was discussing. Of course I'd prefer no one die at all.
I'd also prefer immigrants, lgbt+, and others wouldn't be hunted for who they are.
I clearly highlighted that an at risk group is trying to empower themselves due to the impending risk from actual threats made publicly against them.
Who am I (or you) to tell those folks they are in the wrong to reach for whatever tools they can access? (Be it speech, political action, or indeed self defence)
IM not worried (or therefore the actor in your suggested paranoid imaginings), because I'm not a member of a target group. The trick is I can empathize with their position, and I can recognize that although I'm not in a target group now, I sure could be in the future.
For those reasons I would never get in the way of folks defending themselves, especially when this group is interested in training and safe practices.
The people who "take priority" are those in harm's way, and we aren't the ones to tell them how to live right now, there hearing MORE them enough of that as it is
So you are a gun apologist who doesn't seem to care fifty thousand Americans needlessly die every year. If you do care I guess thoughts and prayers is all you got. Meanwhile no other civilized country has this problem.
Kids get bulletproof backpacks so they won't get shot in the back. Clearly, by your reasoning we should also be arming these kids.
All this so far is just about gun death as well. Not about the millions of partners who are threatened into staying by gun point. Not about all the people who have lost their loved ones to guns. Not all the maiming and injuries.
I am sure millions of people who live in fear of guns is worth those defense fantasies though. After all, once they are all armed there will be nothing to fear ever again.
I've made my point, you haven't addressed it.
You think you get to decide that THIS group doesn't get to join the rest. The rest are already armed, and of course that's a good discussion to have (reducing general gun violence.) But no, here's where you want to argue.
🙄
You created a defense fantasy in your head to justify moar guns. That is about it.
Oh, I have lots of ways to reduce gun violence. The problem is your reductionist argument that the only way to ensure equality is to make sure people are killed equally doesn't allow for it.
I am afraid you lost the argument high ground a long time ago my friend.
Observe, the person demonstrating lgbt+ getting guns is the redline squirms.
Edit this is just like when Reagan stirred up sentiments against lawful black ownership of firearms in California (before he was president). How odd he didn't raise broad societal concerns the year prior, or the year prior or the year prior
Late edit:
The conclusion is either you chose this thread, and this group to complain about "think of society" topics intentionally, or you are unwittingly aligned with the type of speech rightwing groups use to demonize legal expression of rights and self defence among minority groups. I'm a pessimist so I personally assume the former.
This is not the time/place, or referred to group to be lamenting the state of gun violence in America, unless you do so in bad faith.
Guns is how we solved the Nazi problem the first time. If you've got a better solution, we're all ears.
Military action is how the Nazi military was defeated. Nazism was never defeated though. You must understand the US was very pro-Nazi before WWII. Wealthy private individuals from the US helped to find the Nazi party.
Later on, after the Nazi rose to power these same US individuals lobbied the governments of Europe and the US not to take the Jews in. The Nazi party originally wanted to expel all the Jews. This lead to the final solution and the murder of millions.
So it is more complex than guns kill Nazi. We were not the good guys in all this. I also think this has little to do with gun proliferation in the US and the lack of regulation causing untold suffering.
Yes, we know. What's your better suggestion?
Moars guns will not solve our problem is my original statement.
What to do? Regulate heavily and reject gun culture as a mental illness would be the best way to deal with it.
Obviously gun corporations and gun nutters are going to reject this. The question then becomes are we going to let a minority hold our entire civilization hostage so they can make money and play with their toys?
It is very common for a gun nutter to threaten death on people, especially people who talk about regulating guns. This threat of violence is terroristic in nature.
Perhaps properly regulating is not an option due to the ridiculous amount of influence threatening to murder everyone is. This is basically where we are now with politicians to corrupt or scared to do anything.
I have also presented the idea that technology could solve the problem. The Igun from Apple with facial in recognition and a host of safety features that prevent accidental discharge into your family members.
I know gun nutters hate the idea of a smart gun, but this may be the way we actually start reducing our ridiculous amount of gun deaths.
We could also start actually studying the issue. Our government has been cock blocking any research on gun safety for over twenty years now. It is now the number one killer of children, but there was a nothing to see here, riiight?
I wasn't asking how we should handle the problem of gun violence.
I asked for your better suggestion for how we should defend ourselves from these fucking Nazis.
That was kind of the whole point of the discussion. Let me catch you up. Moar guns doesn't solve the problem. Most people that are arguing against this are using some form of a defense fantasy to support their reasoning. They are imagining a threat and then justify their actions based on that imagined threat.
Stop pretending the Nazi are coming to kill you. Stop being played by one side or the other. Start demanding your rights, speak out, and organize with like minded people.
The conservatives have no actual momentum save a bunch of assholes who are ready to trample your rights. They will only get away with what we let them. The solution is to get active not buy guns and hide in your basement.
Are you gonna type your way through the next four years, nagging at people that will get thrown in camps to find a better solution?
Ah yes, because reducing gun deaths leads to interment camps. I could only imagine what you would of said about seatbelts back in the day.
Why do you keep intentionally misspelling "more" as "moar"?
It is just sarcasm flair.
Unironically yes, because more violence is incoming.
Since they belive in enacting laws that benefit them only, we have to twist these same laws against them.
Don't want more guns (or any guns tbh), but fuck it, I'm buying a gun and going to the shooting range with my fuck trump rainbow tshirt
Better to keep a low profile in places you're outnumbered.
Omaha beach was invaded with flowers and poems...