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Which country allows their citizens to openly speak about and protest said war crimes?
Americans have jesters privilege. We can say anything we want as long as it doesn't matter. As soon as the government thinks it might matter, they have a million tools to silence you.
This is horse shit. There are examples of protests being countered (e.g. When Trump gassed protesters and clergy members to hold a Bible up upside down at their church), but these examples are rare and those people weren't actually "silenced". They told everyone about what happened.
Americans have freedom of speech protected by our constitution. China, on the other hand, has actual laws dictating against many forms of speech.
For example... "The PRC bans certain content regarding independence movements in Tibet and Taiwan, the religious movement Falun Gong, democracy, the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre, Maoism, corruption, police brutality, anarchism, gossip, disparity of wealth, and food safety scandals."
How well did the protests about gaza go over then? You are hand waving away something we all lived through and saw. From unions to college campuses, protesting has never been a protected right. You can only protest as much as those in power allow you to in your area.
Even those not in power shit on protestors when it affects their lives. People start saying things like "thats not the way to protest" or "this isn't the time or place, have some respect".
Its bullshit, and we do not have the freedom to speak our minds, unless we already agree with what we are expected to.
See also: the cute little "free speech zones," you're free to speak your mind as long as it doesn't interfere too much or upset anyone.
The US cracked down on Gaza protests quite harshly. Many states enact book bans these days and some ban topics like slavery from schools. Also historically protests against Vietnam were partly gunned down. The black panthers were often murdered and in fighting them the US even bombed one of its own towns. Red Scare was huge and Ernest Hemmingway was probably driven to his suicide by FBI surveillance, for which he was called paranoid but later proofed real by declassified files.
Censorship in China goes farther, but the US is far from being a free speech haven or ever having been that.
Facts right...
I would posit you can say anything but the truth that hurts profits or US interests otherwise...
Like calling out Israel 🤡
As soon as
the governmentoligarchs who own the media thinksit might matter, they have a million tools to silence you.But it's also worth noting that the Chinese don't even have that. At least in America, you can get your message out by getting a billionaire to agree with you.
I thought the Jester's job was to say stuff that DID matter, but he presented it in a way where the king could save face.
Looking it up, it's unclear how much jesters were respected for having political competency that kings and court would listen to vs how much they were were entertainers who were permitted much greater liberty with content because he was non-threatening and affected nothing.
I think simply people like to laugh, its not crazy for a king to hire on someone to make them laugh.
Did they bring in some tanks as well? Or if they did are we allowed to talk about it?
Outside of "Chinese man gets removed from his league of legends match cause a player talked about tiananmen square" memes, what do you know about Chinese censorship?
Talking out your ass
When was the last demonstration made against central leadership? Or everyone just loves it there? Why do they have a firewall that blocks youtube?
I'm gonna answer that last one cause it's the only one I know lol.
So you know how we are banning tiktok because we are afraid of China influencing America? So fun fact, America does that. We are like, cultural colonists. We have created a sort of global super culture that has gotten into every countries lives.
And we have 100% used that as a sort of "in" with locals in countries we were not friends and then we would use that influence to radicalize the right wing ideologies in the country and cause destabilization and, all things going well, revolutions. See: all of south America and the Middle East (hi Afghanistan).
So with all that in mind. With the world's greatest super power systematically using its cultural influence as a soft power start with encouraging revolutions in your country for its own geo political gain. All that in mind. It's kinda the most obvious move in the world. The US is doing it right now because they "perceived" it happening to us. If China became a big cultural export to the world you'd bet your ass that we would great firewall ourselves off. We just don't have to. Because we are big dog. Woof woof. And China don't have a large amount of cultural export.
Sidenote. A Chinese company, tencent was making investments into videogames. They own riot who make league of legends and they have been getting their finger into a lot of studios for that sweet gamer money. The US gov said this game investment company is "apart of the Chinese military" lol.
I know that they don't like people asking for a free Tibet and independence for Hong Kong. Are there any good mainstream Chinese media articles that talk about these subjects?
Andrew Wimmer was handcuffed and taken to jail on January 22, 2003 because he refused to protest in a ""designated protest zone"" that was out of sight of the President as well as local and national TV news cameras.
A woman, armed with a ""We Love You Bush"" sign showed up at the same corner shortly after Wimmer's arrest. Wimmer asked the police if they were going to arrest her if she didn't move and they said, ""no."" The police also allegedly blocked the national press camera crews and an AP reporter from approaching the protest zone to do reporting.
https://www.aclu.org/documents/dissent-forced-be-out-sight-and-out-mind
That's a far cry from how china suppresses protests. And really a small individual example. Overall there's a clear freedom of expression and civil protest in the US. The same absolutely cannot be said about china.
I love how people just say this. Like you know lol
Can you draw the chinese leader as Winnie the pooh in China without repercussions? I can do it to my leader where I'm at.
Can you find me a person in China who will tell you that's true or did you pick that up from memes of people posting Winnie the Pooh xi?
You learned in highschool what a reliable source is and "cultural osmosis" is not a valid source.
Are you really this ignorant of the subject?
Oh no. The most generic reply that allows you to dismiss 1.4 billion people's worth of experiences. Your right, China has committed a pretty large amount of heinous shit. But so has America. Infact, I would say America has committed significantly more.
But it ain't a dick measuring contest. Evil is evil. Buuuuut here's where my issue comes in. We can talk about a ton of American stuff that's cool. Culture, tech, food, urban planning but if you try to talk about China at all it very quickly becomes some guy posting the wiki link to a list of reasons China sucked.
Imagine doing that in reverse. It's fucking silly. There's this concept called "time" and when combined with another fascinating discovery called "place" you get the appropriate and inappropriate times to say things regardless of it's validity
You know what's silly? You ignoring political persecution of journalists in China.
There are countless articles on the subject.
Here's a random one: https://rsf.org/en/chinese-regime-s-fierce-repression-journalists-hidden-behind-day-celebration
How are you going to feel about China when it starts murdering Taiwanese people? https://asiatimes.com/2025/01/china-building-monster-barges-to-overrun-taiwans-shores/
Same way I feel about the America murdering palastinians, Iranians, Iraqis, central and south Americans and everyone else. Bad. But when America does it, we get people saying "oh that ain't even genocide". I'm tired of the fucking hypocrisy. More so, I'm tired of every conversation about China having to be about their crimes instead of the cool things we could learn from each other.
Do you see what point I'm trying to make? Or do you wanna list another crime like others already have, resulting in me saying the American equivalent and being stuck again at stage fucking 0
How about China enabling the brutal North Korean dictatorship or Russian war?
How about actually giving a shit about Chinese people and not wanting to them to worry whether one wrong comment is going to find them jailed?
Not once have I defended American actions, but you are too busy excusing away Chinese aggression that it's obvious you aren't a serious person.
I see. More crime listing.
America is currently funding and arming the complete extermination of the palastinian people via Israel.
There's the tit for tat.
Now, to attempt to better explain what I'm trying to get across cause you missed it. I am not excusing China, they have, are and will continue to do fucked up things. But EVERY conversation about China does not need to be about those crimes. Just like how we can talk about something American like idk, fuckin super bowl or something and no one's gonna stop that talk to start naming atrocities we've committed from a list.
Or how we can talk about France without mentioning how abhorrent the economic stranglehold they have over their "former" colonies in North and West Africa.
China should be able to be talked about in that same way. There are things they as a people AND as a state have done well and is worth looking into and learning from.
But if every fucking time China gets brought up and your dumby brain 🧠 Immediately starts listing off atrocities then you can't have any of those conversations. It's a conversation killer. It's a mental wall errected carefully across the minds of every American due to our schools And news which have told us since birth "China bad". That's my problem.
Do you see the nuance here? Do you see my point yet? Did I explain it good? I'm genuinely trying here but you just did the thing I said you would do and I'm worried that your not even listening, that the wall in your brain 🧠 has appeared between me and you. And I'm just trying to talk to you and get my perspective across. You dont gotta change your mind, just acknowledge that you understand my perspective here.
Can you post pictures of a tank event in the 80s in China without censoring? Can you talk about these protests ?
Well considering a majority of americans think the tank guy got ran over and murdered on camera for everyone to see, maybe not so crazy they quash that one.
Edit: I encourage those who aren't aware to go watch the full footage, its not shocking in the least, many will find it anticlimactic even.
Edit 2: took forever to find the full video, its not in full on youtube or anything like that I could find: https://odysee.com/@swprs:3/tiananmen-tank-man-1989-hd-full:b
Well the US doesn't. China is hard to say because it's not constantly at war
Like, the Netherlands or something maybe?
And the top comment on that video is defending the police, fascism has it’s hold in many places
The removed of fascism is always in heat
lol .ml censoring your word here is super apropos
"Fascism is when you have to infer a word from context to avoid being called slurs" (Albert Fascism, creator of the .ml TLD
Dang Albert fascism and his choice selection of english
Thanks for posting, didn't know about that!
To be fair I mainly wanted to jokingly tell the commentator that both china and the us are guilty of this, so I just mentioned a third country that I thought was decent. Thanks for educating :)
China, but also the PRC hasn't been in a war in like 50+ years. Meanwhile the US killed a million innocent people in Iraq, and goes after whistleblowers like Assange, Snowden, and Manning for speaking out about its war crimes. And the Obama administration prosecuted a record number of whistleblowers, and had a zero tolerance policy towards them.
Try to talk about the Tiananmen Square in China, Monsieur Jacques I.
"haha if you say tiananmen square in a league of legends match the Chinese get banned" is your source
What about the Tiananmen square massacre?
- Notes for the 30th anniversary of the Tiannment incident.
- It wasn't a massacre of peaceful students, but a skirmish between PLA soldiers and armed detachments from the pro-capitalist / free market reform movement. The protest movement, as evidenced by their own accounts, called for market liberalisation, and free market reforms, rallying around a replica of the statue of liberty. After the movement had been building in the square for seven weeks, unarmed soldiers were sent in to disperse the protesters, after which many soldiers were beaten to death, torched, and lynched. The New York Times death count went from 2600, to many thousands, to 8000, to tens of thousands. In reality only around ~200 (including soldiers) were killed or trampled, in smaller clashes outside the square. The on-scene New York Times reporter disavowed the article, especially about machine-gunning of protesters. A wikileaks cable from a US ambassador to the US state department, confirmed that no killings or machine-gunnings took place in the square.
- Latin American diplomat eyewitness account of June 3-4 events on Tiananmen Square wikileaks (PDF)
- There was a Spanish television crew that covered the entire Tiananmen Square incident as it unfolded. Their footage showed that there was no massacre. A few things worthy of pointing out - Liu Xiaobo and Hou Dejian, both student leaders of the Tiananmen protests, have been recorded as saying that they never saw anyone killed at the protests.
- The protest movement followed the line of "color revolutions", in which the US tried to destabilize and create counter-revolutions in eastern Europe and Latin America after the fall of the USSR. The strategy was to stir division within and without, by inundating the media with news of massacres of "peaceful", pro-capitalist / market reformers.
- The defeat of a counter revolution in China.
- Interviews from some of the student leaders.
- An account from a resident.
- Tiananmen Square "Massacre", A Propaganda Hoax.
- The truth about the Tiananmen square protests
But the tank
Checkmate commies
I just posted this elsewhere, and I'm sure you've already seen it but here's the full video of the tank man:
https://odysee.com/@swprs:3/tiananmen-tank-man-1989-hd-full:b
Does not get run over, no violence.
Yeah that was the point, I was being facetious
Yeah I guess I sorta used your comment there to put that out for other people. Sorry for that.
That vimeo link of the spanish tv crew coverage doesn't seem to work for me. Do you happen to have any mirror of it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMtopY3pcZs
@[email protected], update your link for #4.
Done, thx.
Not America & not China, this isn't a competition