Churches close their doors as fewer Americans attend
Churches close their doors as fewer Americans attend
Churches faced with empty pews are fighting to keep their doors open, while former houses of worship are being converted into bars, clubs and luxury condos.
Summary
Churches across the U.S. are grappling with dwindling attendance and financial instability, forcing many to close or sell properties.
The Diocese of Buffalo has shut down 100 parishes since the 2000s and plans to close 70 more. Nationwide, church membership has dropped from 80% in the 1940s to 45% today.
Some churches repurpose their land to survive, like Atlanta’s First United Methodist Church, which is building affordable housing.
Others, like Calcium Church in New York, make cutbacks to stay open. Leaders warn of the long-term risks of declining community and support for churches.
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Not on the internet. I'm a string of characters. I don't have a face, I don't have a voice, I don't have a body, I am a handle and a comment tree. I cease to exist as soon as you aren't paying attention to this comment chain. I could be a bot, you have no idea.
The internet can never be community. We are only human when we do human things. This digital space isn't human at all.
I mean, why are you even here then? Exchanging information IS a human thing, and we're (probably) all people behind the screens. I agree that physicality is a necessity for a 3rd space, but I disagree that it's necessary for community.
To say that we can't help people with our words strikes me as rather pessimistic.
I'm here for fun, not community. None of this shit matters. It's not real.I don't know why I'm here. Just to get ganged up on and hurt myself.
i feel the downvotes kinda proved your point...
._. *patpat*
It do be like that sometimes...
But even having fun maybe matters too?
I'm sorry you got ganged up on... I, at least, enjoyed reading your comments.
Edit:
It just occurred to me that tone really doesn't come across on the internet, and "Why are you even here then?" could be read in an accusatory way, when I really didn't intend it as such. I meant it in more of an interrogatory sense, and I wasn't trying to be mean. I was curious. ._.
You have as much right to be here as anyone else!
The internet can never be community.
Bullshit. There are millions of communities on the internet. Maybe not the kind of communities you personally want, but communities just the same. Don't gatekeep how others interact with different social groups.
Also there are countless communities that exist both online and in meatspace. You can enjoy people in the real world, go home and resume those connections via internet with the same people. Those people don't cease to exist when they're not physically standing in front of you.
These are not just letters on a screen. They were put here by a human being named Kevin. I have an entire life, history, interpersonal connections, my own thoughts and feelings. Tomorrow you will likely see more things that I write along with everyone else who's part of This community.
The internet is a community only in a sense that abstracts and extends the original meaning. It only has any of the defining aspects of a community by analogy. A closer analogy is that it's a glory hole without the hole.
There are no communities on the internet, there are ephemeral places where people go to waste time. That's it. That's what the loneliness epidemic is. People are killing themselves because the internet is not community and it can never be one.
Have you ever wondered why people on the internet are so nasty? It's because we can't actually see each other as people here. Yes, you assume every commenter is a person, but your subconscious can't see it. There's no face, no voice, no body, no presence, and its even worse with pseudo-anonymity. This isn't community. You don't even know my fucking name.
I have an entire life, history, interpersonal connections, my own thoughts and feelings and none of that is on the internet. Here I am a floating text box for you to yell at and talk down to, and for all you know I am a bot. You will never care about me or anyone else on a forum the way you will a real person, no matter how much you insist otherwise. You can't, because this isn't a community. We are all perfect strangers that are here to beat each other up for fun.
We can't help each other here. You have to log off.
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You're projecting.
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I actually fell in love with someone after dating in virtual reality during COVID. After several months she moved to my state, and we've been together for four years now. Seems pretty fuckin real to me.
Why did she move? I thought the internet was good enough and you didn't need physical connection!
We did in fact continue to hang out with our friend groups in the VR community even after the move. Because being in a relationship and being in a community are two different things.
If you had kids and needed someone to watch them, would any of them do it? If you both got sick and needed someone to bring you hot meals, would any of them do it? If your car broke down, would any of them drive you to work?
If your house got destroyed by a natural disaster, would you be able to stay with any of them?
Community isn't just a friend group. Community is local. It has to be, or it's just a group of people.
Some of them, yes. Absolutely.
I'm sorry, I don't believe you. Your Internet friend would travel across the country to drive you to work? Come on.
There are just some functions of community that can never be fulfilled by the internet.
Even if you want to argue it is a community, you can't tell me it is a full replacement for an in person communal space.
I don't believe you.
That's a you problem. We are done here.
It's like they don't understand the idea of friendship or something. Would I fly to the other side of the world to help a long-term friend in need that I only know from the internet? Maybe not, but just for practical reasons. Would I do everything I could to help them from this side of the world, like maybe send them money or see if I could find someone more locally who could help them? Absolutely. And if their country got invaded and they became a refugee, I would welcome them into my home.
Sorry, but it's hard to believe someone would drive cross country just to take you to work. That's something neighbors do.
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I have met some of the closest friends I have ever had on the internet. There is a space on the internet I go to every day to interact with people who I am close with as people I grew up with. We've met up in person and were just as good friends.
I also have friends around the world I have spent years sharing my life with and theirs with me- photos, videos, things they've written or drawn, questions, deep conversations... and I've never met them in person. I have a dear friend in Turkey who I have known since the 1990s and we've never met. I love him like a brother because we've helped each other through so much even though we're on opposite sides of the planet.
You need to stop projecting your experiences on everyone else.
Tell that to the numerous thriving online communities.
Like this one? You think this is community? You don't even know anyone's names.
I mean, does that matter that much? Your irl name is just an identifier that points to you. Just like queermunist is an identifier that also points to you.
I've seen you before, I've read some of your comments. I wouldn't say I know you per se, but I at least recognize your name in passing and have an inkling of what to expect from you.
You could almost think of it as we both go to the same school, but have different friend groups so maybe never really interact, but still know each other exists.
And some of the more prolific users I understand a bit more of. And some of the smaller communities I'm part of I know all of the regular users a little bit better.
But you're right, it's a bit harder than in person because you can't put a face or mannerisms to the handle, but I think you can still know people here a little bit.
Also, it seems weird that someone who is openly trans is complaining that we don't know people's names rather than us knowing the names people chose for themselves.
I'm fine with my real name, but if the world called me Flying Squid, I'd be cool with that too.
Another brilliant take from someone on .ml
See, this kind of nastiness proves my point. I'm not human to you, I'm a random encounter in the posting RPG.
You just want to hurt me so you can win. That's not community.
You're obviously human. Not someone i would talk to in person, but still human.
What the fuck did I do to you to deserve you talking to me this way? Really feeling the community here.
Do you treat strangers like this in real life? I doubt it. That's the key difference between internet and reality.
You are making an ass of yourself and being surprised when folks start getting snippy?
Id ask what ya expected to happen but expecting something implies you've thought about it, clearly you haven't.
All I said was that the internet isn't a communal space and that I could be a bot. We need real, in-person communal spaces.
The way you are treating me proves it. You wouldn't talk like this to someone to their face.
Do you think the way you are talking to me right now is how you build community?
You are claiming that you cant build a community online, something most folks disagree with. Then you double, triple, and quadruple down and get surprised when folks get a bit pissy with you. You have had every opportunity to accept that people disagree with you on a baseline and could agree to disagree and bow out, rather than do that you claim folks are being mean to ya and play the fucken victim. Itd be funny if it wasnt pathetic.
Also yes I would talk to folks like this IRL, hell I may actually be worse since I wouldnt be trying to articulate over text. Ive outright told folks to kill themselves with a smile a mile wide. Believe it or not but I am being polite, I just aint a backbiting Southerner about it and will give my honest words on a matter.
Another brilliant take from someone on .ml
You’re obviously human. Not someone i would talk to in person, but still human.
You are making an ass of yourself and being surprised when folks start getting snippy?
Id ask what ya expected to happen but expecting something implies you’ve thought about it, clearly you haven’t.
You read these and tell me they're the kinds of comments that build community.
You want to know why I don't think internet communities work? Because people talk to each other like this, completely unprovoked. This is mean as shit. What the fuck??
And you think this is okay, because this is just how people are on the internet.
This doesn't feel like community to me. This feels like bullying.
I don't know why I comment on the internet. I just get my feelings hurt.
No it was very much prompted, this is basically the internet comments section version of talk shit get hit. You spouted off a highly polarizing opinion that people almost universally disagree with on a fundamental level and then got surprised when folks bit back.
It also wasnt unprovoked you pissed folks off by spouting crap not allowing a lick of nuance. Fuck people probably wouldnt have gotten so pissy if ya just left it at lemmy, but you included all forms of internet communities.
You made absolutists statements about highly complex sociological topics and then when people gave up on civility and bit back in the tiniest of ways you act as if you just had your arm blown off. You are a child if not literally then in mentality.
You reap what ya sowed, and you sowed anger. Dont expect folks to try to build a community with someone who claims to not believe in it. Go cry wolf elsewhere.
What part of "you're obviously human" required you to lash out and swear?
You're the only one here that's arguing you cannot build a community, and also showing everyone exactly how not to act in a community.
The part where you said "Not someone i would talk to in person." Is this how you think you build community? Telling people that they're stupid, you don't want to talk to them, and they're an ass?
Why did you do that to me?
Playing the victim because you're being disagreed with is not how to build a community.
Oof
Commenting on lemmy is self harm sometimes.
Maybe for you.
Sorry, Im pretty sure thats all were likely to get. The way things are going well be lucky to have public schools in 20 years, let alone a bunch of new publicly funded community spaces.
The internet can form community but it's not the same. I'm about to move across the country and crash with a friend I met through the internet; and I've only seen her irl twice. That whole friend group are some of my best friends. And they aren't even the only close friendships I have through the internet.
But also, I've done the only socialize online thing and it broke my mind in college and again in the pandemic (which is when I met both friend groups I mentioned earlier). I need physical places where I can interact positively with other physical humans. I need physical places that I can coexist with other people and that's what an actual third space is. And I've seen what only existing on the internet does to people and it's not good
Yes yes thank you, this is what I meant. I know I pissed a lot of people off by saying that internet communities aren't real, but what I meant is that they aren't a replacement for community. The distance, the lag, the lack of a face or voice or body, the time zones, there's so many elements that make internet "community" into something that I struggle to call community.
If people want to call it community then fine, but it's not a neighborhood or a workplace or (in the earlier example) congregation.