"So the billionaires’ families are gonna get billed for all of this like the time my family got billed for my ambulance ride, right? Right?"
"So the billionaires’ families are gonna get billed for all of this like the time my family got billed for my ambulance ride, right? Right?"
So the billionaires’ families are gonna get billed for all of this like the time my family got billed for my ambulance ride, right? Right?
No you’re getting billed for this too
ta-da!
Worse they will get to sue everyone associated with the failed rescue.
What really makes me angry is that media is full of some millionaires drowning in a rattle can steered with a 30$ Logitech controller while there are 100s of people drowning in the Mediterranean Sea every week because they are illegally pushed back by authorities and media is silent about it...
What do you mean, the media is silent about this? There's tons of articles about that exact thing.
Search and rescue with hopes they can be found vs people already dead will win in media 10 out of 10 times.
You can blame lionardo dicaprio
I think very few care about the money they had
They are illegaly coming too. Also media is silent about this? It is the only thing they talk about.
They are forced out of their countries. I get your opinion if it is about young people just looking for work. This is also happening. But there are mothers and babies and kids among those people. They don't go onto a rubber boat for fun. I bet you wouldn't care about laws if the live of your family is in danger. And even if it is illegal, can you explain how it is ok to push them back into the water and let them drown? Mothers and their kids?
Not informed on this particular instance but 90% of illegal immigration to western countries happens because the US, UK, France, or etc, fucked up the migrants' origin country one way or another. A perfect example of this is the US: most immigrants are from places fucked up by either the US overthrowing any left-wing Latin American government, or by awful US drug policy. Most nations not only have a moral responsibility to migrants as fellow humans, but they are usually directly responsible for those migrants wanting to leave their homelands to begin with.
They are forced out of their countries. I get your opinion if it is about young people just looking for work. This is also happening. But there are mothers and babies and kids among those people. They don't go onto a rubber boat for fun. I bet you wouldn't care about laws if the live of your family is in danger. And even if it is illegal, can you explain how it is ok to push them back into the water and let them drown? Mothers and their kids?
It will probably be the company that owns the sub that get's billed. Given that the founder and CEO of the company was the pilot of the sub the company will probably declare bankruptcy.
Similar kind of stuff happens all the time, where public institutions bear the cost and consequences of private enterprises. Good example of a not too dissimilar situation was Memorial Hospital during Katrina, where instead of sending private helicopters and rescue, the firm that owned the hospital opted to wait for "free" US government rescue.
Privatize the profits, but socialize the losses.
can't have rich people not making more money, can we now
Of course not. No consequences for the billionaires. Instead, we will pay.
The coast guard has never charged for search and rescue. This was not an ambulance ride.
Where I live if you fall and injure yourself on an established hiking/climbing route, in season, you will be rescued for free (regular ambulance rides are free anyway).
If you climb or hike off track, out of season you might be charged for a helicopter ride or mountain rescue. As you can imagine it's not cheap.
regular ambulance rides are free anyway
what in tarnation
This seems quite reasonable to me, and if you are doing the more risky activities, then presumably you'd get some insurance to take the edge off the rescue charges.
So basically if you do something stupid to put yourself in that situation, you have to pay for the rescue. Something like say going to the bottom of the ocean in a Jerry rigged tin can with limited communication functionality and piloted using a cheap off brand Xbox controller?
If I take an unregistered, uncertified, uninsured vehicle to a place that has no roads and I get myself in a huge pickle out there, you can bet your ass I will be billed for the rescue. And probably fined on top of it for fuckin up the environment in the process.
Also as a hiker, I have a satellite comms device in case my ass needs rescued. And I have SAR insurance, because my ass cannot afford the bill.
Remeber that time a couple wanted to sail around the world, bought a boat but didn't know how to sail rally, took their newborn on it, then had to get rescued at sea? People were pissed about the cost of that rescue, calling the couple dumb and entitled and whatnot. I think they had to pay some of the rescue cost back. Personally I don't know that I'm wild about charging people for rescues, it's hard to draw a line between legitimate adventure travel, say hiking in a national park, and a reckless stunt.
I haven't landed at a position on it either, but I could definitely see how if people understood they had to pay at least some portion of the rescue costs, they will try to be more educated and prepared when venturing out into the wild/at sea. Its extremely important to take this stuff seriously and too many people already treat nature like a joke and get themselves in terrible situations cause they just know a helicopter can come pick them up*
In my state we have a stupid motorist law that bills the driver if the drive into a flooded wash and need to get rescued. This typw of law should apply. Accidents are Accidents. But if you willfully ignore safety regulations and signage you get the bill.
Stepping outside is ignoring your safety. Walking a stair is dangerous. Being alive is deadly.
The fallacy of the beard makes the mistake of claiming that blurred lines between things means that categories are useless.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-of-the-Beard
What’s funny is that this comment closely mirrors one made by Stockton Rush.
If this is referring to the submarine rescue, generally-speaking, rescue efforts by the US Coast Guard or the Park Service or the like are paid for by the government. Interestingly, at least for the Park Service, this is the opposite of the situation with Europe, where it's common to have rescue insurance if one is heading out into the wilderness hiking or whatnot. This is the reverse of the situation with medical services.
Which means ultimately it's paid by us.
In general I'm all for having it paid for but in this instance, nope.
Tbf if its proven the titan wasn't up to regulation it should 100% be the company that build the sub that needs to be held accountable. If not the bill should go to whatever got the rescue people involved. Then the insurance that covered such exotic and dangerous ride. (Just like i had insurance when i went to see the pyramids). If its not any above the above than it means the passengers took 100% responsibility and the families should pay up.
Hundereds of immigrants died this week on a ship, no one gave a fuck. Not a penny spend.
I am hoping someone more informed then me can do a comparison how long we could provide shelter and food to those immigrants with that amount of spend money. The internet cant enforce fair economic treatment between the classes but we can call out the hypocrisy.
There was already an article that basically said they will be immune from any lawsuits. They operated in international waters outside the scope of any laws or regulations on how the submersible needed to be rated. I hope they can find grounds to sue them and kill the company, maybe they will be open to civil lawsuits?
There's nobody to sue. The CEO is dead. Oceangate is a bankrupt company with no assets.
These people were billionaires. We've learned that there are pretty much only consequences if you mess with rich peoples money. What happens if you murder a bunch of them through negligence?
I think they will find a way to destroy this company and all of these people involved no matter what form that takes.
The submersible was a boat on a ship the ship.may be bound by imo or it's flag star rules. I work in maritime software. regulation around Solas and imo rules are mental I mean we only moved ships off xp in last few years as the xp for embedded systems had been thoroughly tested and type approved, e.g. two 90day test runs
Even though one may be in international waters, that doesn't mean there are no rules. I believe you still have to follow the laws of your home port.
Pretty sure coast guard did step in to help the ship, but the ship was hiding from authority. Once the call went up because was there. Like the RNLI rescue small boats in English channel. (Somthing some.idiots on the right are claiming is reason not to give to the charity)
As far as I know, there were no regulations the submersible company were obligated to follow, so the families of the billionaires, who signed waivers informing them of that fact, should be held accountable as well.
"there were no regulations" In therms of building a specialized craft to take people to a landmark icon of history on the bottom of the ocean is the most disconnected elitism thing i have ever read. I can't even jump in the ocean in the sea whenever/wherever i want because of regulations.
I would have expected that the owner of the submarine pieces would be footing the bill for this. After all, he is at the head of this fuck-up.
is it bad that I read "floating the bill for this" ?
Yeah, dude won't float for a while
I wonder to what extent the massive imbalance in news coverage was simply super wealthy families handing journalists pre-written pieces so that laziness would dictate this result (rather than the journalists doing this naturally, although laziness is natural enough I guess).
I wish. But what I know of the current affair of things, I can only hypothesize two outcomes:
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The benefit after the costs of potential rescue, and now the discovery of 5 recognizable pieces of the craft, will be a learning moment and there will be more regulation of deep sea diving for tourism in the near future. And the families of the victims will say that's enough and probably name the legislation after one, or a few of the victims.
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The family of the victims will make sure OceanGate will never build another deep sea vessel ever again. This one will depend on the legal logistics. Just like how some airlines caused airliner crashes due to pure negligence, some of the first-class families weren't able to sue them into non-existence due to international airspace and/or waters protections.
Because either of those two things are what typically happens in such a scenario. At least lately.
- The benefit after the costs of potential rescue, and now the discovery of 5 recognizable pieces of the craft, will be a learning moment and there will be more regulation of deep sea diving for tourism in the near future. And the families of the victims will say that's enough and probably name the legislation after one, or a few of the victims.
There are already regulations, the problem is that once they go to the ocean there are international waters so they are not required to follow them. That's exactly what the cocky CEO did. He was vocal that regulations "impair innovation" and "it is not as dangerous".
- The family of the victims will make sure OceanGate will never build another deep sea vessel ever again. This one will depend on the legal logistics. Just like how some airlines caused airliner crashes due to pure negligence, some of the first-class families weren't able to sue them into non-existence due to international airspace and/or waters protections.
From what I understand they don't really have much assets, the CEO was the guy with the vision and is now dead, the company reputation is ruined. Even if the families wouldn't go after them it is unlikely the company will exist.
It is possible that those people will look for jobs in other similar companies, but hopefully under somebody who is more sensible and listens to experts.
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I got a $2000 bill for an ambulance. And then kept getting nickel and dimed by them for $200, $100 charges for the next two years. The whole system is screwed up.
Oh this is when their lawyers turn around and point out they were doing some kind of scientific “research” on behalf of someone’s pet charity organization so it’s all exempt and they pay zero.
Have you seen the statement made by the company itself? It keeps going on about how they were adventurers, explorers, frontiers in ocean exploration, bla bla bla.
Nah, that sort of shit is for plebs.
Don't you know? Consequences are for little people.
Downplayed as a good "training exercise"...
Even if they did have to pay, it's insignificant when you're that wealthy
I didn't know I can let out a sigh that large. Wow, surprised myself.
Where I live, in Canada, if you aren't insured a plane trip to a hospital will cost you upwards of $30k
Hey stop appropriating my American culture.
So the single payer system up there doesn't cover everything then? Do you buy insurance only for things the single payer system doesn't cover, or do you have to completely buy private health insurance to get that kind of coverage?
No it does not cover everything, and it'll vary province to province what is covered. In Ontario, things like dental and vision care are not covered. Pretty much anything that happens in a hospital is covered, so if you have surgery and they give you medication while in the hospital it's free. But if they prescribe you something and send you home, you pay for it (like with certain expensive cancer drugs). But if you want a private room that will cost you extra (if you have insurance they may cover it), if one is even available. Our current hospital situation is really bad, it's overloaded and nurses and doctors are leaving and burnt out. Years ago I fainted and someone called an ambulance and I was charged 100 bucks for the ride, it was deemed unnecessary or something so I got charged. I was really young and it was a long time ago so I can't remember exactly. But I've heard others haven't been charged for ambulance rides so it's a case by case basis I suppose. Basically life saving care for emergency stuff like your appendix is about to burst will be covered by OHIP but if you have something like a tooth abscess or need glasses you will have to use insurance or pay out of pocket. For example, bariatric surgery is covered, but there is a very strict guideline for qualifying, otherwise you need to pay it yourself. Pharmaceuticals are not covered unless you are poor and qualify for the Trillium drug coverage that Ontario offers. Our system is far, far from perfect but I would take it over the US's current system anyday.
what about the boat in greece that sunk?
What is this about
The submersible that imploded near the Titanic wreck.
Who do you think pays when governments bail out large private corporations?
I honestly don’t know shit about fuck but I would hope that there would be some type of litigation or something that would figure this out right?
the government might have a case to sue for negligence and get some of their costs recovered. but the company is going to go bankrupt anyways, so even if they win it's not like they're actually going to recoup any money.
Makes sense. Can’t take money from them once they are totally bankrupt.
Just wanted to say that a friend gave me a sticker of Ruth for Christmas that says I don’t know shit about fuck and it was the best gift ever
The company will get billed. Yes.
No they won't. USCG does not bill for search and rescue operations. US taxpayers will foot the bill for this.
I cannot speak for other sovereign entities that were involved, as I'm not familiar with their laws.
I mean they probably will. It's just that the families have so much money it'll be like a drop in the bucket for them. ¯\(ツ)/¯
Christ, this comment section is almost 100% reactionary.
It could only be considered "reactionary" by those who are not American and seen things as necessary as Ambulance calls break them financially due to their being billed in the thousands of dollars, then watch while tens of millions of these exact same Americans tax dollars are spent in search and rescue attempt for literal Billionaires, who were warned just how insanely dangerous the submersible they paid 250k to travel inside of was. Or douchebags, douchebags would consider this justified pent up bile decades in the making as "reactionary"
So your post illustrates the problem perfectly. People think that because their life sucks (not their fault) they can just do whatever they want, be as reactionary as they want, demonize anyone they want for whatever reason. Living in this fantasy is doing nothing for your cause.
Do you want more people to see and understand injustices in the system? Do you think acting this way is going to make people who are comfortable with their lives feel comfortable engaging with the topics we need them to engage with?
Seriously, if a wealthy person saw this post they would walk away thinking their parents were right and proceed to contribute to the republican genocide fund.
The truth is on our side, all we have to do is be honest.