¯\(ツ)/¯ rule
¯\(ツ)/¯ rule
ID: MUNROE @MunroeBergdorf posted: "Please don't be surprised if I block you instead of engaging in 'a debate' about issues that don't affect you, but impact on my life greatly. I do not need to, nor want to converse with people who prioritize their desire to prove a point, over my humanity and rights."
Amanda Jette Knox @MunroeBergdorf replies: "THIS. You owe no one a debate on who you are, ever. Not online. Not in person. Not in the media."
I'm late here but whatever. I'm finding myself more and more on board with this, the more time passes. When I was younger, I would've been more willing to 'debate' every asshole but the older I've got, the more I've realised that they've all just got the same 'points' over and over again and if arguing those points hasn't changed anything in the last 15 years, it probably won't change anything now.
Same goes for "just asking questions". It's the same fucking questions that every JAQ-off asks, and all 'questions' that can be easily answered by shutting your fucking mouth and opening your ears for once. Maybe stepping out of your bubble and listening to what people who are different from you are saying for once.
Last night I blocked my first customer. Got a shitty, really over reacted and unnecessary comment to something. Checked their profile to see if it was just someone having a bad day and saw that literally every comment this person makes is to shit on someone, that's their entire contribution to this platform. Even spotted a "typical white females" in there. So I just blocked, knowing that nothing of value has been lost to me.
And I think that's how I'm gonna play it from now. If I get an aggressive response from someone that isn't full of aggressive responses, I'll indulge them a little. But if it's someone that's clearly just here to fight and make people miserable, the most attention I'll pay them is hitting that block button.
It's easy to see this as a jaded mindset, and heck, maybe it is.. but it's still anyone's prerogative to just say "I don't want to discuss this, and if you don't like it, there's the door".
I sometimes engage in good faith conversations, where I later realize the good faith was only from one side of the argument. That SUCKS, so I get it.
Personally, I'll still try to talk, but just because I'm a naive fool doesn't mean others need to be :P
Well, someone like you won over a homophobic teenager with kindness and a good faith discussion almost three decades ago. And that teen, once he stopped hating for half a second, found out that he was gay himself, so thank you for engaging with those voices.
I won't tell you to keep doing it, since it is exhausting and I can't tell you what to do, but know that those efforts are hardly a complete waste.
You're fantastic.
The whole premise of a debate usually comes with the connotation that you will never get convinced, and that if the other person was more convincing than you, then you "lost" and just need to be more persuasive next time.
So yes, just telling someone their opinions are bad usually doesn't work and is a waste of effort, no matter how well written and supported you are.
From what I can tell a lot of this is just Twitter culture. It is totally possible to have a debate where the point is exploring the ways your ideas do and don't make sense rather than purely trying to "win" by addressing a crowd with propaganda and rhetoric, it's just that the internet has trended strongly towards the latter over the years.
I agree with OP in that I wouldn't try to debate people on Twitter either. That doesn't mean debate has no value though, you just need to figure out where your line is for when it isn't going to be worth responding, and then do the hard part of actually committing to that.
You lost this: \
They didn't, the Markdown interpreter ate it. Akchually, you need to write 3. I wrote about this earlier.
Brain had an instant where I thought "is that...that Amanda Knox"
wow what are the odds we would both post this today i literally wrote up my post and photo shopped this image last night and waited to post til this morning
https://lemmy.world/post/24836517
edit possible trigger warning needed btw for my link i am not here to troll
This is the type of mindset that has destroyed civilized discourse and eventually leads to dumber peoples with religiously encrusted beliefs, no ability to learn, improve and progress. Finding it so taxing to discuss is usually because when putting their positions to the test they find they have no arguments.
This statement is at least twofold:
1 - it says “I do not have to debate to ensure I have basic human rights”, a statement that is clearly true in every instance.
2 - it is a reaction to bad-faith “debating” used as an attack tactic by oppressors; read up on sealioning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
Combine those two facts, and you have people weaponizing “I’m just debating” to keep someone in an unending treadmill of debate where they constantly have to try to prove they deserve basic human rights. It’s actually hell.
Good faith debate and discourse on all key topics the media/gov pushes on us right now has been long settled, none of it is new, so someone actually willing to learn can just search “do trans people deserve basic human rights” or “can minorities be discriminated against by systemic factors” and there’s already robust answers that should not shock you!
No need to make a trans person make a case over and over again that they deserve to live or a Palestinian make a case that the system within which they live is an open-air jail. And that is what this person is saying.
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- it says “I do not have to debate to ensure I have basic human rights”, a statement that is clearly true in every instance.
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No need to make a trans person make a case over and over again that they deserve to live or a Palestinian make a case that the system within which they live is an open-air jail. And that is what this person is saying.
That's factually incorrect. Basic human rights can be taken away. It happened all over the world, along ancient and recent human history. It's happening right now in Europe and in the USA. Basic human rights must never be taken for granted. They will always be attacked and therefore must always be protected.
Maybe random debate with strangers on the internet is not the most effective way to fight for human rights - but that's not what you or the OP are implying. You are arguing that you should not need to fight for them. And in an ideal world - you would be right. Meanwhile in the real world - refusing to debate because the matter "has been long settled" does not deprive the other side from their vote.
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Fair enough, now that I'm aware of the context I get the spirit of the post. Still I wouldn't let sea lioning or whatever it's called dissuade people from having conversations.
Gimme a fucking break, a marginalized person has no obligation to engage in a debate with someone who wants to continue marginalizing them and maybe do worse
I guess I'm missing the context here, I have no idea who these people are or why they're marginalized. But generally speaking not engaging in civilized discourse does not help.
idk, it gets kinda tiring telling people I deserve rights and should not be discriminated against
That's not a very interesting conversation, I will agree.
Issues that impact my life greatly are issues I WANT to talk about and debate with others.
Especially gender-war issues and sexism that have just about ruined my life at this point.
I only agree with the image that I greatly prefer to talk to people that have serious experience with these issues. Unfortunately those are the people least willing to talk about them, and I believe that this is a major barrier to our society solving these issues.
Can you not understand the difference between wanting to do something, and something being demanded of you?
Personally, I would consider making a public post about something on social media as an open invitation to talk about it in comments. It doesn't excuse being rude or anything, but if it was about an issue in my life that I was comfortable sharing, I would expect others to appreciate giving and receiving perspective if they didn't specify otherwise.
Not sure who would be demanding anything in this scenario. People choose to comment or not, including the OP. Everyone is communicating only as much as they feel comfortable doing, unless there's context I'm missing.