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Okay. Say Biden refuses your demand. What then?
Maybe you should advocate that Biden not refuse that demand.
Seems pretty important if you know, you care about defeating Trump.
Maybe you should advocate that Biden not refuse that demand.
It would be great if Biden changed his view. I hope that the changing views of the American electorate on Israel and the protests relevant to that change pressure him into doing so.
But when you say "Well, it's actually completely okay if you decide that allowing fascism is the better choice if Biden doesn't change his mind😊", what you're saying is "I don't give a fuck how many Palestinians OR American minorities die, and I don't care if I ever get a say in governance again."
I mean you clearly don't give a fuck about how many Palestinians die. You've been arguing a position that sets Trump up to win.
Sorry that I want to minimize the number of Palestinians who die, while you would prefer to maximize the number.
No you don't dude.
You refuse to take your criticism to Biden and expect voters to just accept genocide.
You are an apologist for genocide.
You refuse to take your criticism to Biden
Oh yes, just the other day I was offered a trip to the White House to discuss my policy positions with Biden, and I stood up on my one good leg, and firmly said "NO! I will NOT go and take my criticism to BIDEN HIMSELF! If he wants to hear my criticism of him, he can log into Lemmy like everyone else!"
and expect voters to just accept genocide.
No, actually, I expect voters to vote against "more genocide", something that seems extremely controversial to people who want MORE genocide, for reasons that Definitely Make Sense From A Left-Wing Perspective. I guess more dead minorities is... left praxis...?
I expect voters to vote against “more genocide”,
Voters aren't going to move their position on this. Only the candidate can.
Voters aren’t going to move their position on this.
Oh, voters aren't going to change from desiring more genocide? Makes sense, considering how stubborn you are on insisting that as many minorities be killed as possible.
I mean you are the one arguing in favor of genocide bro, not me.
I'm making the argument that we take our issues up with the politicians who are trying to curry our favor, and withold our support so that they take on policy positions that enjoy more widespread approval, thus increasing their chances of getting elected.
You are the one arguing that we shouldn't bring our criticisms forwards and instead should suffer the deeply unpopular policy positions these politicians have taken. The issue is that is a guaranteed L for Biden. By supporting a politician with bad policies, you are setting them up to lose the election. He can't win if he continues supporting this genocide. He has to shift his position, and the only leverage we have right now is to withhold our support.
You dont care about Biden winning this election.
I mean you are the one arguing in favor of genocide bro, not me.
Oh, okay, so now you agree that it is necessary that Biden is elected, and that playing games with "It's actually completely okay that you're voting third-party, I'm so proud of you 😊" games is actually dumb as shit. Glad we're in agreement now, shame it took you so long to come around.
You are the one arguing that we shouldn’t bring our criticisms forwards
When did I say that? Feel free to quote me.
By supporting a politician with bad policies, you are setting them up to lose the election. He can’t win if he continues supporting this genocide. He has to shift his position, and the only leverage we have right now is to withhold our support.
Ah, yes, the only way we can ensure Biden WINS the election is by doing everything we can to ensure Biden LOSES the election. Fucking brilliant. Next we'll play chicken on the railroad tracks.
I guess we'll all have to figure something else out then, huh?
Then your choices are reduced to "Allow politicians to know that your 'demands' mean nothing because they have no consequences" or "Let the fascist win".
By the way, really loving the "LOL let's just wing it" attitude towards the potential murder of millions more people. Makes me feel real warm and fuzzy inside to know that the pro-minority attitude of the online left isn't even deep enough to be performative.
Probably as much as it warms my heart that the online centrist attitude is "I guess i'm eating genocide today shrug"
You're eating genocide either way, unless you have a fucking miracle candidate up your sleeve you've been hiding 'til now. The difference is, you've chosen the "All Trump Can Eat" genocide buffet.
We only have to eat genocide if we choose not to send the food back
I can tell what your appetite is by the fact you're not even trying
We only have to eat genocide if we choose not to send the food back
What was your plan to send the food back and ensure that the genocide buffet wasn't returned in response, again? Was it "We're going to say 'no' very firmly despite 48 of the 100 people at this table eagerly voting for the genocide buffet"?
Frankly i'm hoping the chef cares enough about that possibility that he serves up something different
I really think it's the customers basic obligation to at least say 'whatever the chef recommends BUT ABSOLUTELY NO GENOCIDE'
If you're not at least saying that idk what to tell you, you're probably gonna get genocide
Frankly i’m hoping the chef cares enough about that possibility that he serves up something different
Pretty big hope to lay on a chef who knows that a little genocide is already popular with a significant portion of the 52 other people on the table.
Pretty long odds to make on the lives of millions of people.
I really think it’s the customers basic obligation to at least say ‘whatever the chef recommends BUT ABSOLUTELY NO GENOCIDE’
We absolutely should say that. But when the chef comes out, and if it's a genocide sandwich, and the only other option if we send it back is that the chef opens up the genocide buffet for the the 48 customers at the table drooling at the prospect...
You have to know when to bite the bullet.
If you’re not at least saying that idk what to tell you, you’re probably gonna get genocide
Man, I'm sittin' here saying that Israel is committing one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century. I've called it a genocide, I've said even passive support of it is a stain on America's collective soul, I've advocating for boycotts, removal of ALL aid, just about everything short of a no-fly zone over the AO - and fucking honestly, if the ongoing conflict in Ukraine wasn't a current concern, I'd be advocating for that too.
But when it comes down to it, if my choices are 'less genocide' or 'more genocide', I'm not going to tell anyone voting for 'more genocide' that their choice is OK and I understand and forgive them for sending me and my loved ones to the camps. Like, maybe if it was a question of "It's you and your's, or me and mine", I could understand and forgive that, but it's not. Trump's genocide here and in Ukraine will not alleviate the Palestinian genocide; he will, in fact, intensify it. There's no excuse. And I'm not going to pretend there is.
Man, I’m sittin’ here saying that Israel is committing one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century. I’ve called it a genocide, I’ve said even passive support of it is a stain on America’s collective soul, I’ve advocating for boycotts, removal of ALL aid, just about everything short of a no-fly zone over the AO - and fucking honestly, if the ongoing conflict in Ukraine wasn’t a current concern, I’d be advocating for that too.
and then you're saying "but i'll fucking DEVOUR that genocide if you serve it up to me anyway, and i'll get all my friends to commit to eating it too"
But when it comes down to it
Woops, you've already accepted defeat to genocide there. Even your performative outrage isn't all that strong, if you're eager to move past the choice Biden has to not serve it to you.
and then you’re saying “but i’ll fucking DEVOUR that genocide if you serve it up to me anyway, and i’ll get all my friends to commit to eating it too”
Because the alternative is the genocide buffet. Have you already forgotten that?
Woops, you’ve already accepted defeat to genocide there. Even your performative outrage isn’t all that strong, if you’re eager to move past the choice Biden has to not serve it to you.
Cool, instead the backup chef comes out. It's Trump. Genocide buffet, including the sandwich we rejected. So glad that we've made things worse for no gain. Great job, us. Maybe a little circlejerk before we're taken out and executed will lift our spirits.
Bro, YOU are the Trump supporter here.
"The BIDEN supporter is the TRUMP supporter!"
Yes, picking the one of the two realistic candidates means I actually support the OTHER realistic (but much more vile) candidate. You caught me.
Biden isn't a realistic candidate if he doesn't shift on Palestine.
He's been polling below Trump for over a year. He suffers a 12 point polling error spread.
Biden isn't a viable candidate right now. Its because of his position on Palestine.
Biden isn’t a realistic candidate if he doesn’t shift on Palestine.
How convenient, Biden isn't a realistic candidate if he doesn't shift his position on YOUR issue of choice. Meanwhile, most of the American electorate puts foreign policy near the bottom of their list of concerns.
He’s been polling below Trump for over a year. He suffers a 12 point polling error spread.
Oh, and he'll gain 12 points from swapping positions on Palestine?
Like, do you see these threads?
You've catalyzed a huge cohort of people against your position and approach. Do you see how many people are becoming activated and joining the conversation just to strike you down? This is because of your approach to rhetoric. You are actively costing Biden votes, like.. right now.
You can't do this by convincing people to vote for the lessor. If you want the audience to vote for Biden, you have to take a different approach
You’ve catalyzed a huge cohort of people against your position and approach. Do you see how many people are becoming activated and joining the conversation just to strike you down?
Oh damn, you've got me, let me check the ratios along these comments
Still waiting for you to tell me how Palestine will win Biden 12 percentage points, in your view.
Like, do you see these threads?
You've catalyzed a huge cohort of people against your position and approach. Do you see how many people are becoming activated and joining the conversation just to strike you down?
LMAO he's clearly getting more and more upvotes. While you're getting downvoted and removed. You're so delusional.
Keep it up though, you're doing a great job of the exact opposite of what you think you're doing.
Who's the alternative candidate with a reasonable shot at winning that has a policy that is more beneficial for Palestinians than Biden?
Don't say something stupid like "polling less than 1% for the 5th time Jill Stein" or "I'm not even sure which party I'm the candidate for but I need to sell some more books Cornell West".
Here's a list of third party candidates to help you out.
Don't bother fighting with that cunt, he's one of those liberals that loves genocide and wants people to shut up and support it. No amount of talk could convince him to stop supporting genocide or attacking people who don't want to
"Makes me feel real warm and fuzzy inside to know that the pro-minority attitude of the online left isn’t even deep enough to be performative." very funny bullshit coming from someone who's so "pro-minority" he would go all out to defend the mass murder of Palestinians and shut down any attempt to protest it
one of those liberals that loves genocide
Do you think they 'hate freedom' too? lol
He hates Palestinian children having the freedom to not starve and not get bombed. He can't shut up about how people critical of the genocide need to shut up and stop supporting trump (bc there's truly nothing more trump-ish than opposing genocide)
I want some of whatever you're smoking!
Idk, It's a little more fun when he's the subject of the chastising than it is seeing all his crocodile tears in my homepage for minorities while he's defending an actual genocide.