Free-Market Advocate, Elon Musk, Asks for U.S. Government to Put Tariffs on Chinese EV Imports
Free-Market Advocate, Elon Musk, Asks for U.S. Government to Put Tariffs on Chinese EV Imports
Part of the free-market attitude though is that you should be allowed to buy policy, so in that regard it's consistent, you just have to account for corruption in the cost of doing business.
'Mericuh fuck yeah!
This is how all capitalist markets progress, which is why I get annoyed when folks try to talk about this as though it is hypocritical. There is nothing hypocritical about a capitalist attempting to stifle innovation and competition for the advancement of their own personal wealth. This is what capitalism is about.
I think that what you're saying is that actions of hypocrites cannot be considered hypocritical since it's their nature to be hypocrites. It's all a bit circular, isn't it?
I think that in the case of Mr. Musk, the issue is that he has been seen as an innovator not just as a capitalist for much of his time in the spotlight. For 2018 Musk, this declaration would have been hypocritical. For 2024 Musk, whatever, why are we still listening to this clown?
It's not what free market is though. Which is what capitalists pretend they are for.
The "Free Market" is a fantasy originally pushed by Think Tanks funded by the Koch Brothers.
All the great things we're told about The Free MarketTM only ever work in highly competitive markets with no barriers to entry were it's easy for any Jane, Jack or Joe to enter the Market and start competing with the rest: thinks like soap or teddy bears.
As soon as something as simple as Land-ownership gets involved (for example, for your store in a prime location) it stops being perfectly competitive and all of a sudden you get feedback loops were the more money somebody does the more money somebody is capable of doing, meaning that first mover advantage is close to unassailable (and what we see in the modern world is that the ones with the biggest first mover advantages inherited them).
The Free MarketTM is really just an ideological excuse from neoliberals to convince people that the power of the vote should be indirectly weakenned (sure, you can vote, but the State, which is controlled by voters' elected representatives, can't regulate or otherwise "intervene in the market", so de facto the vote loses most of its power) so that the Power of Money can do whatever it wants because "the Free Market knows best". Dig through the technochratic pseudo-Economic mumbo-jumbo and what you find is a ideology to weaken Democracy and replace it by Oligarchy.
That's why you work to make sure that there is competition. I'm pretty sure it shouldn't come as a shock that a EV manufacturer doesn't want to have to compete.
I agree that's it's a "hate the game, not the player". The issue is how much influence he could have to steer the market to favor his product vs. the competition. It's happened so many times in history where the better product fails because they can't play the game like the inferior company.
To quote "Pirates of Silicon Valley":
Steve Jobs: We're better than you are! We have better stuff.
Bill Gates: You don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter!
So is it fair for the consumer for big companies to be able to influence the game itself and not just play within the same rules? I'd say no.
I don’t think you’re really addressing my comment, which is just a criticism of how folks write about these “hypocrisies.”
Of course it’s not fair; that’s the entire foundational pillar on which capitalism rests. I’m not saying “hate the game, not the player”. Rather I’m saying the game is bullshit and the player should have his balls kicked with steel toed boot repeatedly.
The players make the game. It's not a one or the other thing.
I don't mind bashing Musk for a second, but as far as I know China follows a startup mentality with electric cars - the government supports the industry so they can sell cars below their actual price, and once they killed all their competition they can increase.
There's no fair winning against this policy
We have 10 trillion dollars more GDP. If China wants to declare open season on EV's there's no reason we can't beat them at this game. This policy is meant purely to prevent our auto industry from having to innovate like a competitive market would force. Nope we're going to have 50k E-SUVs that spy on us and fall apart. And we'll like it. Because they also passed legislation in my state to ban the sale of new gas cars in 6 years. And the mass transit system is. not. ready.
I would think that the winning move would be to impose enough tariffs to offset the foreign government subsidies, yet still promote some competition.
The government could also 100 percent fund battery research; Put a government owned company out there to make a floor in the market (5 person hatchback with minimum amenities); Give us more than 7,500 in EV rebates on a select few models; Change CAFE standards so bigger isn't automatically better; etc...
There's a lot we could do. We instead chose the most reductive and protectionist route possible. And even then Volvo (Owned by Greely) says they may be able to get a refund on the entire tariff because of the other models they produce in the US.
And the US supports the oil and gas industry. The government supports the industry so they can sell gas below its actual price.
Like that time a US state subsidised Tesla with a billion dollar factory in exchange for jobs most of which were never delivered. I bet in China at least they would expect their grant deal to be fulfilled.
I'm not trying to advocate for China, just pointing out how much of Tesla's current position is the result of hand outs (see; carbon credits)
So they're just like Uber. Why didn't they put a 100% tax on them?
That's free market, alright.
"One rule for me, another for thee."
"Businessmen favor free enterprise in general but are opposed to it when it comes to themselves." -- Milton Friedman
Welp that's if for me then, I'm against tariffs on the cheap shit chinese ev's. Anything that piece of shit wants is bad for us.
I understand the sentiment but that logic isn’t a great way to reliably get you closer to truth.
Free markets for me but not for thee
An asshole can be right. China is anti competitive and actively undermining democracies.
Our ev manufacturers need to be put under pressure, but not by fascist regimes and their exploitation of the earth and people.
The US is a democracy? That’s news to me.
Oligarchy. Bought and paid for.
He wants to be free to control the market, sure.
This is why he wants 25% of tesla so badly
Yeah, tariffs aren't going to help Tesla at this point but yeah, he's still a hypocritical jackass.
Even ignoring all his crazy stances, he's the CEO of an American EV company! What the fuck what would you expect him to say!?
Tesla has both a gigafactory and a Supercharger factory in mainland China. Any semi-competent CEO would recognize that publicly advocating for tariffs on China would have a good chance of backfiring. China could easily turn around and slap 100% tariffs on everything coming out of those two factories in retaliation.
Any semi-competent CEO
This is the important bit right here.
I think the ask is to just pick a lane.
Nobody had a gun to his head demanding him to espouse his commitment to an unregulated free market. He made these broad statements of his own volition.
Now, when he's championing the exact opposite... What?
For people who believed, rightly or wrongly that he had any value-baded stances, they have to accept that they don't exist.
That's what these doofuses are upset about: that the xth richest person in the world is only out for themselves. There is no deeper truth.
He has no need for integrity or consistency. Just like every other fascism-aligned clown choosing or inventing whichever rules they like for each situation.
I expect him to call someone a pedo or some other shit he’s projecting
You mean the CEO of a company wants no competition? Heresay!
It does make a clicky headline though
And not just that, he owns significant portion of it.