MACKLEMORE - HIND'S HALL

Vocal participation in a genocidal system is endorsement of it. You can't tell people to vote for one of the parties of Capital one year and then suddenly tell people that actually it needs to be overthrown and think that's going to happen 5 years later.

At some point you have to commit to it being "broken" (actually working as intended of course) and organize based entirely on the fact that it is and can not be supported in any way whatsoever. We're long past that point with the "lesser evil" party currently committing genocide.

Successful revolutions in the past have used elections primarily as a way to show the size of the movement, never by endorsing a party of Capital.

Organize. Endorsing a genocidal party won't stop them from committing genocide.

So you're okay with a Trump presidency.
- Stop gaslighting people. They said it's time to march and protest and you still accuse them as if they're participating in the system. We want both of them out. This is how movements for change start.
  
  We want both of them out.
  
  Reality check: one of them is going to be elected president in November. Your wants will not change that.
  
  Not with that attitude it won't.
  
  Sure. Or with any attitude.
  
  I won’t accept that, and will march and protest loudly to try to stop it.
  
  What are you gonna do, sick the cops on me to protect the establishment bastards?
  
  What are you gonna do
  
  Continue to shame you for ignoring reality and advocating for Worse to spite Bad.
  
  Classic lib take - attack the voters, because the current admin’s terrible policies are clearly their fault.
  
  Repugs and Dems aren’t the only candidates on the ballot, and thankfully I can vote for someone who has policy positions much more aligned with my interests. Perhaps you can too, think about it. Or vote for more genocide, it’s your choice.
  
  Repugs and Dems aren’t the only candidates on the ballot
  
  They are the only candidates that will win under FPTP
  
  thankfully I can vote for someone who has policy positions much more aligned with my interests
  
  Yup, you can virtue signal all you like. That's freedom, baby!
  
  Or vote for more genocide, it’s your choice.
  
  Nah, I'll stick to advocating against genocide++
  
  I've seen a lot of your comments around, preaching the truth about FPTP, and they are often downvoted into the negatives. But you persist.
  
  I just want to commend you and say that you have more patience than I do. Keep up the good work.
  
  Hey, thanks!
- Yup, this commerad (the one you're responding to) is 100% okay with fascism it seems.
  
  Better to allow the group that locks up protestors, doesn't convict anti fascist murderers, kills minorities, and actively surpresses the ability to vote, than vote for "the lesser of 2 evils". I'm not saying they're Russian, or Republican, but they're saying the same things as those groups.

Not a chance. We need a viable third party or ranked choice to force the two parties we have to listen and work.

Yeah that's not going to work until we have RCP and/or proportional representation. Without those it will just be like every time other time in American history where the splitting party reorganized and most of the same elites ended up in the new party.
You realize the parties of capital don't give a fuck about what working class people say right?

Change in the imperial core has always come through massive violent protests with people like MLK; liberal "democracies" are only a democracy for the capitalist class.
- Yes I know parties of capital don't care but not all of the ruling class belongs to the parties of capital. i.e. Bernie Sanders
  
  I however disagree on the requirement for violent protest. MLK himself was a peaceful protest proponent. Adamant but peaceful. Not to mention all the bloodless revolutions that came out of the fall of the Soviet Union. Or the peaceful revolutions in Portugal in the 70's or the Philippines in the 80's. That's just the last 50 years.
  
  The problem we face now is we have a much more apathetic populace than those in the past. Not sure what it will take to light the fire. That's why I brought up a third party or ranked choice as a stop gap to real change.
  
  MLK was a bit deeper than the "American Ghandi" they teach in school. He was in favor of a lot, just not the outright rioting. He also however wrote about understanding why the riots happened. He just didn't consider them to be productive.

The only line I didn’t like

As always, liberals' "support" for national liberation movements only extends to words, if even that.

They'll gladly support genocide in practice while capitalism gradually decays into fascism, as they've let happen in Europe in the past.

“The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative.”
- Malcolm X
- Ironically showing your own privilege. Those who are in imminent danger from things getting worse will vote against another Trump term, no matter who. Biden and the status quo fucking suck, but they can get so much worse.
  
  They're already in danger. Democrats aren't stopping local governments from attacking them.
  
  Take a minute, read my comment again. I said things getting worse. Not bad, cause they're bad. Worse.
  
  Cool, have a nice day.
- Nah you’re assuming a lot of garbage because you’re dumb. I’m stuck in a first past the post system given a choice between actual trash or a biohazardous fascist dumpster fire. If you don’t vote, you’re more likely giving power to the biohazardous dumpster again and we all saw how that worked out. You’re an idiot if you think not voting absolves you from the consequences of the next person in power.
  
  Nah you're just a dumbass for thinking that voting for either of the genocidal fascists and endorsing the capitalist system keeping them in power "absolves" you of anything (whatever that means).
  
  Political power in a capitalist state comes from organizing, not from writing the name of some maniac on a piece of paper
  
  You're accusing them of thinking voting gives absolution? You're the ignorant one here, and you deserve to be ground under the boots of fascism.
  
  Looks like a liberal was scratched.
  
  .ml accounts and cutting off their nose to spite their face. Name a more iconic duo.
  
  Do something about it lmao. I want to hear about you on the news organizing your way to power before the election. Name drop Jaderick in your speeches, I would love to see it and you could prove me wrong.
  
  In the mean time you’re just trash sitting there doing nothing lol.
  
  Come November, either Trump or Biden will be elected into office, whether you like it or not.
  
  If your goal is to organize, one of those outcomes will make that harder to do than the other.
  
  Really? Are we watching the same news? The Democrats are pulling the same exact bullshit trump did with protestors.
  
  Which is, of course, the one and only metric to measure.
  
  You specifically mentioned organizing. So I specifically responded.
  
  Pro-Palestine protests, of course, being the only form of organization.
  
  It doesn't take more than once to show an intolerance. They only let protestors they agree with organize peacefully.
  
  Same here, sounds like a lot of these people are disenfranchised, or are paid to dissuade voters from one particular side, or they're useful idiots.
  
  I live in a first past the post system, it's not going to change for the better from the top down, I petition for ranked choice voting on the local level, if I want to continue to be able to vote in the future (and not in a Russian sense of "being able to vote") I'm voting for Biden.
  
  Don't let the astroturfing here dissuade you.
  
  For sure, I know accelerationists are the dumbest people on the left who have never picked up a book in their life. I’m getting downvoted in series of 7 votes which seems like a strange number to AstroTurf lmao.
  
  It's not acceleration if it's already here.
  
  What is “it”? All the nebulous statements with no plan lmao. They haven’t broken people enough to revolt yet. I’d have expected Russians to revolt again considering the worse oligarchical state over there, but the oligarchs are still in power. The bullies still have the better organization skills.
  
  I hope y’all are at least part of a union otherwise you’re just worthless words lmao.
  
  it's not going to change for the better from the top down
  
  This needs to be said louder and more often.
  
  You MAGAts keep screaming about how if we don’t vote blue, fascism will gain even more power.
  
  What exactly do you think is happening right now under Biden?
  
  It’s incredibly telling of the liberal brain rot that you can listen to this entire song and your only argument is “but orange man bad”.
  
  So, to quote the warrior-poet: “And fuck no, I’m not votin’ for you in the fall”
  
  Lmao calling me MAGA. Dude can’t even read a post history, I’m surprised you can format a post.
  
  So what are you then, just nihilist internet trash? Explain how not voting is going to make Palestinian lives better. While you’re at it, explain how a Trump presidency would be better for fighting fascism. Explain how not participating in the system of power is somehow going to give you what you want, whatever that may be? You just want to watch the world burn? Start with your own house.
  
  What exactly do you think is happening right now under Biden?
  
  A slower slide into fascism than would happen under Trump. How was that not clear?
Funny how overnight (Russian working hours) our comments went from +20 and +10 to into the negatives, isn't it?
- We can see the votes. You don't have 10 or 20 upvotes on any comment in here. Stop lying.
  
  You can see the vote history? Last night I'm pretty sure I was at 20 and the first response was at 10... But maybe it was a different thread? Pretty sure it was this one..
  
  Yes. It simply shows The up and down votes separately. Unless people changed their vote it was never that high.
- It's definitely not the Genocide Biden is supporting. It's the Russians making it all up!
  
  I think you're right, its not Russians or bots. There really just that many myopic, real people on .ml
  
  They are called liberals.
  
  Interesting take -- walk me through the reasoning there.
  
  Liberals can't see beyond the next election (myopic). They also can't see the results of 30 years of "voting blue no matter who," so they lack the ability to learn.
  Meanwhile leftists have been saying since Marx that Capitalism is the problem, and voting for your favorite color of Capitalism isn't beneficial to anyone but the Capitalist system. So yes there are that many myopic people, like yourself, who will not only vote for blue capitalism over literally any other action, but they will also come to explicitly leftists spaces and browbeat others to do the same.
  
  So, to be clear:
  
  Donjuanme suggested that the reason they and Jaderick were downvoted was because of Russian intervention
  
  Linkerbaan mocked that suggestion
  
  I proposed that it wasn't Russians or bots, merely myopic .ml users (such as yourself) who did the downvoting
  
  You've come along and suggested that those .ml users who did that downvoting are myopic liberals invading leftist spaces
  
  Is that really what you think of yourself?
  
  Whenever I see a person blaming Russian's and Bots for going against their narrative, I know I've found a liberal. When someone else entertaining the option and suggesting the people downvoting the liberal are in the wrong, well it looks like I found two liberals.
  
  Well, I certainly never accused you of having the intelligence required to follow a thread that's a whole 5 tiers deep. So that checks out.
  
  If you want to accuse yourself of being a myopic liberal, you go right ahead, champ!
  
  So are you going to explain how Trump is better for Palestine? Better yet, you got a plan to organize a better system of government before November?
  
  Lib tankies bringing up Trump to excuse for Genocide lmao.
  
  Both-sidesers sidestepping that second question.