Germany to reach out to France and UK over sharing of nuclear weapons
Germany to reach out to France and UK over sharing of nuclear weapons
But Friedrich Merz cautions such a move could not replace the US’s existing protective shield over Europe
But Friedrich Merz cautions such a move could not replace the US’s existing protective shield over Europe
Archived version: https://archive.is/newest/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/09/germany-to-reach-out-to-france-and-uk-over-sharing-of-nuclear-weapons
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You can't downvote reality away.
I doesn't look like us Brits can completely break with the US in military or intelligence terms, at least for the time being (if not foreseeable future). But closer military co-operation with the rest of Europe clearly has to happen, assuming maintenance of our nuclear capability isn't completely reliant upon, or tied up with the US.
Late edit (after a few people upvoted this post) - given the disgraceful way the EU treated the UK during brexit negotiations this sharing of nuclear weapons should come at significant economic cost to EU countries that might want it. I mean, the alternative, a UK aligned to the US and Russia, military bases and nuclear weapons ready, full of US bases, puts the shitty way EU countries were happy to deal with the UK into a bit of perspective.
The Chinese are going to build their biggest embassy in Europe in London about half a mile or so from the US embassy. I'd guess the UK will continue trying to play a mediating role.
Just curious from an American here -
Why should the EU have treated the UK better during brexit? It was clear at the time that they were weakening Europe and themselves on the back of things like immigrant fear stoked by far right and Russian propaganda.
The people of the UK that voted leave or didn't bother to vote fucked themselves didn't they?
They shouldn’t. The “No” campaign ran flat-out lies about what Britain would be able to get out of negotiations, claiming we “hold all the cards”. We did not.
Edit - these posts will get downvoted. If only you could downvote reality away, eh?
Well clearly we did hold cards. The very post you replied to has pointed out exactly the cards we held, and still hold.
What I will say is remainers (including the UK government charged with managing the negotiations) weakened the UK's bargaining position just like your attitude would weaken the UK's position going forward.
But this isn't a brexit argument, that is a long-resolved issue.
This is about the UK's relationship with the EU. And notice I say EU, not Europe. I read media reports conflating the EU with Europe every week. Even this week talking of EU countries creating a 'European Army': well if they are going to define Europe as 'EU countries' (a corporatist takeover of the continent, if you like lol and most certainly something that I have read week in and week out, in corporate/billionaire owned/'mainstream' media and on subreddits alike, for years) so be it. Why wouldn't we maintain our special relationship with the US, and lean towards Russia, while maintaining our friendly relationship with China, given that the UK has been redefined out of Europe anyway? Kind of like Stalin editing his now-dead-former-rivals out of historical photos.
You reap what you sow.
Now if the EU wants the protection of our nuclear weapons, or even if they simply want the UK to intentionally weaken the special relationship with the US, then they demonstrate how they have significantly changed their attitude towards the UK on an ongoing basis and they redefine the EU's power in Europe, and they pay economically.
If not that, then you get Reform, and a UK that is completely aligned with Trumpism, which the easily riled won't believe is something that I very much do not want to see.
Edit - these posts will get downvoted. If only you could downvote reality away, eh?
They did everything they could to weaken the UK. To punish the UK for deciding to leave the EU.
No quarter given.
But the reason people voted to leave the EU was the importation of cheap Eastern European labour that was used to undermine pay and conditions for British workers of every origin. Saying brexit was the result of 'Russian interference' is as reductionist as saying 'Hilary's emails' was why people voted Trump in first time around.
The BBC and others framed the debate as EU 'liberalism' v xenophobia. (But political liberalism is the soft-and-fuzzy glove of socially liberal policy hiding the hard-and-ruthless fist of economic liberalism/neo-liberalism/Reaganism-Thatcherism) v. something xenophobic.
The reality on the ground was far more complex. Like in the US, the stories of poor people harmed by political liberalism were ignored. They still are being, hence Trump 2, and the rise of Reform in the UK. As long as they are ignored the Reform party will continue a rise to power and you will see a UK split from EU countries further anyway. Here I am just describing the most extreme possible version of that.
It might not sound like it but I would rather the UK have closer ties to Europe, including freedom of movement. But that is a different story to wanting closer ties with the monolithic, corporatist EU who harmed UK workers. You can't have freedom of movement without adequate protection of worker's pay and conditions. The EU did the opposite, harming workers for the benefit of corporations.
But ok, I am very happy to agree to disagree on all of the above.
If it was reasonable for the EU to treat the UK badly over brexit, then it is more than reasonable for the UK to give no quarter back now that Germany are asking for the protection of our nuclear weapons.
Now, to some degree the UK is going to remain aligned with the US. Our military and intelligence capabilities seem to be very much intertwined. The alternative for the EU is a UK completely aligned with the US, Russia, and a friend of China. The EU winding back the harm they have intentionally caused the UK is a small price to pay to avoid this. I don't believe any rational politician would disagree.
Perhaps they should have been reasonable when the UK decided to leave the EU.
Curiously, this “reality” of yours doesn’t mention any of the metric ton of lies told by Farage, Johnson, etc. For example, that bus claiming millions of pounds would go to the NHS after Brexit. You correctly state People are hurt by conservative policies, however Brits keep voting for them. You could have voted for Corbyn - you chose not to. Instead of keeping to ask for a special deal, after special deal after special deal as Britain did before, and during Brexit, just negotiate like normal people.
what’s the alternative to nuke sharing? Germany builds its own arsenal and you have no stake or say in it whatsoever. Does that sound more appealing to you?
I am not the slightest bit interested in the majority of your post, it is irrelevant. However I will say that I sense you might assume political affiliations I do not have.
what’s the alternative to nuke sharing? Germany builds its own arsenal and you have no stake or say in it whatsoever. Does that sound more appealing to you?
If Germany are allowed under international law to build nuclear weapons then it is their choice whether they do so or not. I don't mind either way.
Edit - and you downvote this too.
There is a complete lack of reality here. You mistreat the UK when it chose to leave the EU. You continually conflate Europe with the EU. You talk about building a European army, comprised of EU countries, excluding the UK from your EU-driven version of Europe, then you expect the UK to weaken our relationship with the US and give you our nuclear weapons! For nothing!
When the silliness of it is pointed out to you you downvote. I guess this is where lemmy is at.
Here is a life lesson for you: if you don't deal with reality, expect reality to deal with you. American liberals are learning this. It looks like European liberals are going to learn this too. I can tell you I wish all Europeans would learn this quickly before we are all forced to learn the hard way.
I am not the slightest bit interested in the majority of your post, it is irrelevant.
Thanks for exposing your utter ignorance right in your 1st sentence.
Edit - and you downvote this too. Somebody beat me to it so you were already downvoted before I read this.
Im not sure if you are just trolling for downvotes or if you really believe the crazy ignorant BS you post. If it's the latter do get some help.