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What does "officially becoming Cap" mean?
Steve Rogers Captain America literally passes the Captain America shield to Sam Wilson in Endgame. Is that not officially Sam Wilson Captain America's start?
Sure, Falcon and the Winter Soldier will go on to tell the story of Sam's struggle in becoming the next Captain America, but by that series end, Sam is definitely Captain America.
When Brave New World starts, Sam is Captain America. The opening battle, that's Sam Wilson Captain America.
If you've seen Endgame, you know Sam is Cap. If you've seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier, you know Sam is Cap. If your introduction is Brave New World... Sam is Cap.
That said I get the Brave New World & Thunderbolts confusion. Bucky is a Captain America character, so seeing Bucky in the Thunderbolts trailer makes that film seem like a Captain America film. I know it's not that simple and it's a shared universe, but I get that one.
In the Thunderbolts Trailer, it shows US Agent (who has a costume similar to Captain America) using a round shield to block gunfire. If that trailer played before the movie he was watching, it's understandable someone that didn't watch Falcon and Winter Soldier would think "oh that guy is Captain America now, I guess? Thought Sam Wilson was going to be Captain America... but ok, I guess." Then the move starts and it actually is Sam Wilson as Captain America.
This is the problem with there being so many entries into the franchise and filmmakers assuming everyone has watched them all. Most people aren't going to know who US Agent is and from the Thunderbolts trailer, they might assume it's a new Captain America.
I agree with Thunderbolts confusion. Brave New World and Thunderbolts should not be coming out back to back.
Brave New World was originally due out a year ago, but things happen.
Now the idea that John Walker caused the confusion actually makes a lot more sense. If you've never seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and the last trailer you saw was for Thunderbolts you could be confused why some dude who looks like Cap shows up. THEN you watch Brave New World, it's Sam, like you always thought. Now it seems like you missed something, because you did, but that thing now feels noticable.
That all actually makes more sense.
He did say that he vaguely remembered the end of Endgame with the handing over of the shield, and that he did not see Falcon and Winter Soldier, so from his perspective it does seem jarring for him to be Captain America all of a sudden. Perspectives matter.
If I had to guess what he was communicating it would be about an official re-showing of the handover of the mantle in the beginning of this new movie, and not requiring people to have seen a previous TV series.
It could have even been just a montage, from him being given the shield, to where he was at the beginning of the opening battle in this movie, mixing in a recap of Falcon and Winter Soldier best scenes.
What the fuck is that licensing link at the bottom of your comment all about?
People think it actually means something. Kinda like the “post this on Facebook to prevent Meta from using your post!” type things. It’s just feel good pointlessness that won’t effect anything meaningful.
Sovcit shit.
Kinda sorta…. SovCits attempt to incorrectly apply a bad interpretation of some laws in ways they think it will benefit them.
This is more in line with what it’s actually supposed to do, but it just has less teeth than a newborn baby and there’s no way that they would ever be able to have any sort of recompense or enforcement so it’s functionally useless.
Just go look at my posting history, go back about ten months or so, and you'll get a full understanding what it's all about. Focus on the comments that discuss Safe Harbor laws.
If you're just going to mock me about it, to try and dissuade me from using it in the future, don't bother, it hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work now.
A) I don't care about your posting history or any other person's. It's not important.
B) I wasn't planning to mock you, but you're definitely being a little defensive.
C) Since you're being so defensive, you actually think that it holds any water or would stand up to legal scrutiny given that you're posting on a publicly accessible forum?
This feels like the online equivalent to wearing an N95 face mask while on a hike away from civilization: pointless.
A) I don’t care about your posting history or any other person’s. It’s not important.
Well the answers to your questions are in that posting history, so it is important, if you're being intellectually honest about the questions that you're asking, and not just astroturfing.
I'm trying to NOT repeat myself now, and derail and sidetrack the conversation currently being had.
B) I wasn’t planning to mock you, but you’re definitely being a little defensive.
No, I'm not being defensive, at least not in the way you think I am. It's just a matter of the repetitiveness, defending from the constant attacks about using it being very tiring, as well as derailing the actual conversations currently being had, and I'd rather avoid them.
C) Since you’re being so defensive, you actually think that it holds any water or would stand up to legal scrutiny given that you’re posting on a publicly accessible forum?
I stand by what I said, and I believe the laws on my side on this matter, especially when it comes in Safe Harbor laws, and how laws are greater than user agreements.
Put a link in your license that goes to one of your comments that explains the whole license thing. Then you never have to have this conversation again.
Ain't no one going to trawl through 10 months of your comments to find it.
Put a link in your license that goes to one of your comments that explains the whole license thing. Then you never have to have this conversation again.
I'm trying to not talk about it, and would like others to not talk about it either, but instead talk about other things, like the subject of the post my comment(s) are made in. So if they want answers to their questions, they're going to have to read my previous comments, as I don't want to repeat myself.
Ain’t no one going to trawl through 10 months of your comments to find it.
You wouldn't have to read through all tenish months worth. Just go back that far and read one of the first comments/conversations that you see. There was one that was over something like seventy(?) comments in it, going into great detail, both pro and con, of how people (including myself) felt on the top.
But they are talking about it because you don't have a link that explains it and avoids the conversation.
You know, someone's going to read this comment three months from now, and then the instructions to go back ten months from now aren't going to be appropriate anymore.
Just add a link for crying out loud!
Just add a link for crying out loud!
How about we don't talk about licensing in comments instead? Especially when it derails the topic being discussed. Or even just them blocking me, and moving on, that would work for them too.
you already got one link, you might as well add another one explaining it all so I can not click it as well
I'm actually trying to not repeat myself, as I have mentioned before. Lemmy has a great feature for looking up someone's previous comments.
do you find yourself confused often in life with how people behave?
do you find yourself confused often in life with how people behave?
No, but for some Lemmy commentors who seem to get really bent out of shape over a license link being in other people's comments make me wonder WTF is going on with them.
Nobody cares.
I have a completely unfounded theory that comment license guy, the dragon fucker, and that one person that used to use old english letters to write current english are the same annoying person.
I don't know old English letters or how to fuck dragons. /shrug
But that's my point, you don't need to have seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It adds character growth and is worth seeing, but if you skip it and only watch Endgame and Brave New World, he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
Additionally if there were any confusion, before Sam Wilson gets all suited up we watch a news anchor talk about Sam Wilson as Captain America, cut to a bar where Sam Wilson is called Cap and then the bartender repeats that the drink is on the house for Cap.
No one watched Spider-Man No Way Home and went, wait, when did Tony Stark die? Why is Peter so sad about Tony Stark?
I havent seen Brave New World yet, but Marvel movies really should start doing something in their intros to briefly show important moments in prequel movies
A re-CAP, if you will.
he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
But he's just handed a shield, and nothing more, at the end of Endgame.
That just shows a beginning, and the new movie shows an end, but nothing in between is shown, unless you've seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Pulling the scene from IMDB,
Sam Wilson: Only thing bumming me out is the fact that I have to live in a world without Captain America.
Steve Rogers: Oh. That reminds me...
[reaches under the bench and takes out his old Captain America shield]
Steve Rogers: Try it on.
[Sam stares a few moments in stunned silence, then slowly picks up the shield and puts it on]
Steve Rogers: How's it feel?
Sam Wilson: Like it's someone else's.
Steve Rogers: It isn't.
Sam Wilson: [deeply moved] Thank you. I'll do my best.
Steve Rogers: That's why it's yours.
Where is the ambiguity? It's not hand him the shield and then nothing. They have a conversation, if you watch the scene the camera hangs on Sam when he holds the shield. He is feeling the weight of this decision.
Look at the opening of Captain America Civil War. Wanda is fighting alongside Steve Rogers and Falcon. Is she an Avenger? I know at the end of Age of Ultron she turns against Ultron and then she is in the Avengers compound but the film cuts off before Steve says "Assemble", he just says "Avengers...". Civil War would have been a better film if, instead of the opening battle, Steve took Wanda aside and said, "Hey it's cool that you're an Avenger now."
Would the solution have been for Brave New World to have a scene where the news reporter says," As everyone knows Steve Rogers famously handed the title of Captain America to Sam Wilson."?
Smh at what anime will do to a motherfucker. There's nothing wrong with expecting the audience to read between the lines
The only thing missing is a literal torch to pass.
I saw the movie, no reason to quote the scene. My point still stands.
What you quoted just shows the very beginning, the genesis, and doesn't show the journey, which is what I believe Hideo Kojima was talking about. The journey.
If he cared that much about the journey, wouldn't he follow it the whole way? Why is he complaining that, since he didn't follow the story, he isn't getting the whole story?
If he doesn't want to watch all the little bits here and there, he doesn't have to. There's more than enough there to show where it was leading. If you want to see the how and why... watch the show. It's not like it's hidden away in a back room somewhere.
You would have to ask him, but I don't think it's realistic to force someone to have to see Falcon and Winter Soldier first, to understand the movie they're actually going to see at that moment.
At the very least there should be a recap, that's normally what they do in Hollywood, to bring viewers up to speed. Showing the origin story, even as a recap, would be helpful.
I literally just said you don't have to watch it to understand. Just that you'd need to watch it to get the whole story. Which, if you're interested in... you watch. If you're not, you don't. You aren't missing anything crucial to watching the movie by missing the series.
Of course, if what you want to do is complain about Marvel content being significant, it provides an excellent starting point. Which seems to at least be what you want to do.
No, not complaining. Just trying to keep the goalposts from being moved, and responding to the one and only single point that I'm trying to make, why he would say what he did, a plausable reason why.
I'm definately not astroturfing, thats for sure. :)
But wouldn't the journey of Sam Wilson be Captain America Winter Soldier, Captain America Civil War, Avengers Infinity War, & Avengers Endgame?
Sam doesn't just suddenly show up in Endgame and get the shield. In fact he gets to make a fun Winter Soldier callback in Endgame by saying "on your left".
If we want to make the argument that Falcon and the Winter Soldier should have been a film, that's a fine argument to make. I think Sam is a better defined character as a result of that series, but I don't think it's required if you want to believe he is Captain America. Looking at just the films we see Sam's journey.
Plus, if you're looking for a Sam Wilson journey... That's what Brave New World is. It tells the story of a non-super powered human, fighting in a world of super powered people.
You know the funniest thing about people arguing about this with you? If you had watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which I guess these people didn't, you'd know that it starts out with him not being Captain America. He literally gives the shield up and because he doesn't want to be Captain America. So the argument that he became Captain America because of the scene at the end of end game is literally not true. He wasn't Captain America because of that scene he was Captain America because of the choices he makes at the end of the show.
If you didn't watch the show, you don't know Sam gave up the shield. You see him get the shield in Endgame, Steve tells him it suits him, then in the next movie, everybody calls him Cap. What do you need here? A connect-the-dot game? A coloring book?
So I'm confused your argument here is that if you don't know what happened then you don't know you're wrong? What a silly line of reasoning. Imagine tying yourself into this kind of knot to defend the writing of a Marvel film. Lol.
I don't think you know what your argument is. Someone who didn't watch the show wouldn't notice that something happened, the connection fits. You are using your knowledge of the show to point out that this connection is not the straight line it seems to be, but that's not relevant, it doesn't matter to the 2 movies. It'll matter in Thunderbolts with John's own story, but not here. The show is extra information with its own story, which is nice, but it's not critical.
Imagine working so hard to find a plot hole in something you hate. You're overthinking things.
My only argument was that it was silly you people were getting all bent out of shape about something when your point was literally the opposite of the reality. The scene in end game is not Sam becoming Captain America. You're making bad faith arguments. Which is funny. That's the only argument I ever made. Your comments have just compounded the silliness of the situation.
Also never even suggested I hated the shows. So don't know where you pulled that straw man out of.
Yep. Its just astroturfers being overly sensitive and defensive, since the movie has opened recently.
Is this comment not under the license?
Um, are you literally following me around, checking my comments?
I'm sorry to have disappointed you by not adding a licensing link to my comment that you replied to. Didn't realize you needed that in your life.
Don't worry though, I got you covered. Sleep well, little one, sleep well. ...
To be fair, you're commenting all over this thread. I was genuinely interested in why one message wouldn't have your little copy paste, if there was any significance in that. I do think the whole thing is silly, but it was genuine curiosity.
To be fair, you’re commenting all over this thread.
Well I only license label my content when it's actually content from me, and not me simply replying to a question with an answer. At least that's my general rule that I try to use.
But honestly, I tend to think you're more backtracking than being honest about your reasons why you made your initial comment to me, considering you made it at the same time I'm having a heated discussion with others about my use of a license on another post. If I'm wrong in that, you have my apologies.
But it did seem a little creepy for you to make that comment, considering it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. I mean, you could always just let it go, and not comment on it in the first place. /shrug
Well, what in this comment do you consider content? I don't understand why the comment you've made here is more "content" than answering a question.
Check my history and you'll see I'm also engaging with, and actually being WAYYYYY meaner to, the guy that was being a dick to you. Kinda embarrassed him tbh.
I don't see why you would think it's creepy. It's not like I'm personally interested in you or your life. I just wondered why you seemed to be inconsistent about it.
It felt so strange to me, as it seemed like Bucky was the more natural choice to pick up the mantle. Might've been more interesting too
Why do you think that?
Well it happened in the comics I'm pretty sure.
Stronger personal ties to Steve, with connections to his entire journey and villains, with similar abilities. Falcon feels like just some dude without the same buildup or connection to Captain America.
I haven't read the comics at all so this is just impressions from the films.
The point is that being a super soldier isn't really the thing that made Steve Rogers special. Bucky couldn't lead the Avengers. Sam could.
At the end of the day they are stories targeted mostly at children or at least need to be fairly sanitized for kids. I don't see how they could make a multiple murderer and killer of iron mans parents the new captain America in the MCU.
The Russian puppet is more believable as a member of Congress.
Fair enough. I'd personally find it more interesting, and the baggage he'd have to deal with more directly tied to Steve's story. He'd also have the best idea of "what would Steve do" and struggling to meet that ideal while also struggling with a tortured past and forging a new path is worth exploring, with most of it already set up.
I certainly think they could have gone that route. I think Falcon and Winter Soldier does a good job exploring that idea. I do think handing it to Sam is interesting from a non-super soldier standpoint.