Likely I will be fired from job today, thinking what to do next
Likely I will be fired from job today, thinking what to do next
Today, I just got news that our company is mandating that everyone installs spy software on their computers. As I am not going to install such software on my computer, it has been said to me that if we don't find some solution, I will get fired.
To be honest, I was thinking about changing jobs anyway, so I don't mind that much, but I am not sure what to do now.
I work in IT, so I have quite a lot of job opportunities, but most of them are something that is mostly harmful to society.
So I am considering two options: Try to find some meaningful job in IT (which is likely to be very hard).
Find some nice good paying job where I can work, ideally part-time, and focus on working on open source software in my free time.
Not really sure what to do, does anyone have any experience with similar situation?
Does the spy software need to be installed on your own personal device, or on a work provided computer? If it’s on a personal computer then you can request that they issue a company computer to if nothing else just buy some time.
What exactly does the spy software entail?
But I would second that you start job searching IMMEDIATELY. You do not have time to lose.
Thankfully, I can afford to be without a job for a while, and they are trying to accommodate me to some extent. If they fire me, they won't get subsidies for about a million euros.
Spy software would monitor all traffic disk logs etc. Hard to tell for sure, but I certainly wouldn't want it on my device.
I work exclusively from my personal device, and I would need the software to be installed whenever I connect to our VPN (which is very often). I could do something like forward thing through another machine, but at that point I would be lying. From what I've seen if there was an attack they would be probably be going after me which is something I would like to avoid.
You could install the spy software on a vm and do things that require the spy software running on the VM
Demand a company computer for their spyware, or isolate your work stuff within a VM. They don't get to tell you what to install on a personal device. Fuck that.
The issue with using a company device is, that I would be much less productive on their device. Also, even if I had such a device, I don't even want such software running on my network. And to be honest, their response really motivates me to just leave.
You being less productive looks like a "their" problem. You can also create a guest network only for that device so that it makes it less likely for them to be able to look at the remaining of the network.
But I understand not wanting to work with people that makes that kind of decision.
Still, delaying the situation with "quiet quitting" methods is a good way to give you a longer time frame to build the alternative.
Most modern programs can detect a VM and will brick the system or refuse to work if they detect one.
Makes sense, but then we're back to them trying to tell me what to install on my devices, and fuck that. I feel for OP but I think that would be the walk away point.
Are you entitled to severance? Depending on how much bullshit and confrontation you can tolerate, you can attempt to get fired in a way in which you would get severance pay/benefits if that's an option. Examples include feigning incompetence on the corpo spyware, dragging your feet for a long time, i.e., attempted compliance.
Also could you install the spyware on a vm? You could then do that and basically bunk off of work until someone notices, which gives you paid time to shop for jobs.
I have not personally had a ton of success finding actualization via employment. What has worked for me is taking a very low stress job and working on other parts of my life.
Unfortunately, I am not entitled to severance. I could probably install it on VM but from what I've read about the spyware it works on kernel level, so there is pretty good chance they would notice. Also, I work in a pretty dynamic environment, so my boss would notice me not doing anything really quick. Fortunately I have some money saved up and in my city demand for IT people is really big, so I am not really worried.
The one part about my job that I enjoy is that I have some freedom to tinker around with new things. But yeah, other than that, I am starting to feel a bit burnt out. Maybe some low stress job, or just part-time, is the way to go.
I wonder: if you installed it on a VM, and they noticed, what problem would they really have with that? It's to observe you while you're working, right? It seems like the best solution for both parties, as the company gets to do its spying, but you get to conserve your actual privacy.
To me, it almost seems worth it to go forward with installing it on a VM, just to see if that creates further conflict. An employer insisting to be able to spy, specifically, on your private device, even when a better solution is available, seems like it could go favorably for you with whatever workplace rights institution is available in your area.
Could always look for union labor work. Compared to IT you'll probably be staring down the barrel of a pay cut but you'd potentially have some nice benefits and exercise to go with it. I spent 5 years in insurance claims and a bit less than a year as the on site tech support for the same office, it absolutely wrecked my brain working there. Got a job as a custodian for the school district, only a $9/hr pay cut but the benefits are better at lower OOP, I will get a state pension to retire on, and I'm more active than I've been in I don't know how long which has had tons of health benefits.
Good luck either way.
I work in Europe, so benefits are pretty good wherever I work. But yeah it is something I am also considering maybe finding some completely different job, to be honest I am starting to feel some burnout.
I would stall that situation asking for the company computer to have the software installed, and checkout emotionally from that job.
Then, something I'm considering for my own career, work with solutions based in FLOSS software with small businesses.
There's a lot to learn, a lot of people to help, a lot of work to be done, and problems to be solved, with an efficiency no big companies can compete with. In theory.
If they want spyware installed, they should give you their own computer with the spy software on it so you don't increase the attack surface of your personal machine. If you're not dead set on leaving insist that they at least provide the host for their spyware.
Take the next job opportunity that pays OK but keep looking for the job you want to have.
Note: I’m not a lawyer.
If it’s their computer then they can install the software. If it’s your computer they cannot.
However you’d be well within the realm of reason to ask them to supply you with their computer to do your work. (Assuming you work from home, and have been using your own machine to do their work.)
That’ll give you some time. They’ll be going for the angle that you either quit or were fired with reason most likely, as a way to avoid paying unemployment.
Make sure they cannot. That unemployment will give you breathing room as you look for a new job.
Good luck!
To me, company requiring I install their monitoring software on my personal PC is a massive red flag. Even if they didn't threaten to fire you, I would start looking for new work immediately. Honestly, my company expecting staff to use personal equipment for work would be a red flag to me even if they didn't require monitoring software. From a security perspective alone, I wouldn't want people using their personal devices on the office network. I don't allow anything except domain-joined PCs using our specific image on the network.
Depending where you live, that could also run into legal areas because it is often illegal to monitor employees outside work hours. If you somehow caught them tracking your PC usage when you were off the clock, you'd probably have grounds for a lawsuit. I think even the US, with their shitty employee protection, doesn't allow monitoring off the clock.
However, I know in the US it is staggering how little expectation of privacy you are allowed as an employee outside of that. I believe it is actually legal for companies to require you to install spy software on personal PCs if they are used for work purposes. Thankfully where I live it's a little bit better, one of the requirements is that companies must disclose that the employees are being monitored as well as who is doing the monitoring. As the sole IT for the company I am the one that would be in charge of any tracking (I enforce none in our company. Short of staff doing anything illegal from a company PC, I honestly do not care. It's their manager's fault if they are slacking).
Could you just tell them "oops, sorry, all my personal machines just broke. Golly gee, guess you gotta pony up for one so I can do my work". If you need a PC to do your work, it's up to them to provide one.
I chose to work on my personal machine, I am much more comfortable and productive on it. Our company does issue work laptops, but they are basically unusable. Overall I get the point of not trusting outside machines, but I would not want to work on anything other than my system, which to be honest is much more secure than other computers at our company.
Not really sure what the laws are to be honest, but technically I am not currently their employee, so they probably wouldn't apply anyway. I have been thinking about quitting for some time anyway, and this really pushed me to do it, so I don't really mind that much. Also, if they fire me I know they will lose a lot of money, which is a nice benefit.