Everyone loves to roll 1 die every 30 minutes (/s)
Everyone loves to roll 1 die every 30 minutes (/s)
If you check my comment, I will show you my current Dying condition that I have been able to test on the field.
It's 80 % the one from XP to level 3, with a few things changed and actually used in a DND game :)
Enjoy
I take a system inspired by the video game Wildermyth, where the player gets to decide what happens at 0 HP.
Option 1: You fall unconscious. Your fate is out of your hands.
Option 2: You die, but... You might go out in a blaze of glory, or inspire an ally, but you're dead for good. At least it's a good death, which is better than some get.
Option 3: You live, but... You might lose an eye, or a magic item gets destroyed, but you manage to escape. You're still out of the fight, but you live to see another.God I love Wildermyth:
Option 4: the weird curse in your body accelerates, you get a blaze of glory but are permanently changed
This is a really overview.
I play a lot of WFRP. The fate point system is similar to option 1 and the critical system is effectively option 3.
And as a GM I’ll never get in the way of option 2!
If it takes a half hour for a single round of combat then I will assert that you actually are doing D&D wrong. Players should know the rules for anything their character can do and be paying attention so they're ready when their turn comes up. Combat and magic rules take up maybe a dozen pages in the PHB, spend an hour and read over them a few times to make those weekly games you invest two to six hours into go much smoother.
The DM should know all the rules. Like most homebrew I see, this is an overly complex "solution" that functions nothing like anything else in the game and wouldn't be necessary if everyone involved actually learned the real rules. 5e already has an exhaustion mechanic and it works nothing like what is described. Making up new and convoluted rules to be used by people that take six minutes to move and make an attack or cast a spell is not going to accomplish anything but making your combat turns forty minutes long instead of thirty. I play in a game that includes seven PCs including two "lightly experienced" players and one complete noob. Combat rounds take maybe ten minutes, tops, because people pay attention and the DM actually learned all the real rules.
Dying: at the end of your turn make a flat check against DC 10. If you succeed remove one from your Dying Condition. If you succeed by 10 (eg. you roll a natural 20) remove two from your Dying Condition. If you fail to succeed add one to your Dying Condition, if you fail by 10 (eg roll a natural 1) you add two to your Dying Condition. You are no longer incapped when you are at Dying 0, add one to your Wounded condition. If you have reached Dying 4 you are dead and can only be resurrected through magic. When next time you get the Dying Condition, you dont start at Dying 1, instead you start at Dying 1 plus your Wounded Condition Value.
When you'd rather be playing Pathfinder
Ye. Which I do :)
I'm a big fan of the use of a dying condition, or at least being reduced to 0 hitpoints being referred to as dying, just because it's so clunky to accurately refer to it at the moment.
The thing I can see in yours that is perhaps an oversight (perhaps planned) is that anything that is designed to modify all saving throws such as the monks proficiency in all saves or the paladin's aura of protection would make succeeding by 10 or more easier in a way that's not currently covered by requiring a natural 20. (Both of these abilities currently apply to death saving throws but do not make natural 20s easier of course). Also bless, and any bonus to all saves from magic items work on death saving throws too. This also impacts the ability to fail by more than 10, making it effectively impossible without a different homebrew feature creating a penalty to the roll.
Seperatly you call it a check, which means it wouldn't be impacted by these saving throw alterations but would be impacted by anything which alters all ability checks such as the bard's Jack of all Trades, or more concerningly, the combination of the rogue's reliable talent and any way to gain proficiency in it, which is basically an automatic success.
There are a few currently niche cases where characters gain a bonus to all saving throws or specifically death saving throws which is intentionally factored into the power of the feature, and makes them exciting and useful, that are either hugely buffed (depending on how you rule their use) or totally discarded in replacement to other features that weren't balanced around this ability.
Something I do love in this is the ability to introduce the wounded condition outside of being unconscious. Imagine how scary something like a nightwalker would be if it's aura didn't do necrotic damage but instead just forced a con save Vs getting a point to your wounded condition.
Personally the way I'd handle this is to make dying a condition that is basically identical to the death saving throws mechanic currently in 5e, but have it reset when you gain hitpoints by any means, if then disconnect being unconscious from it entirely at a mechanical level and just say if you gain hitpoints when unconscious you may choose to instantly end the condition. This would mean everything that currently works in the game to offer a bonus to death saves remains, and in very rare cases, you may make death saving throws while not unconscious, either counting from there when you fall unconscious or dying while on your feet at 3 failures.
I'd also change taking damage while unconcious to just force you to make a threatened dying save, which is just like a normal death saving throw except you don't mark a success if you get 10 or more, you may only fail. This means that you can wail on an unconscious PC without worrying about killing them without agency. I'd probably also make the spare medicine checks function as a protected dying save, where you can't fail and can only gain a success on 10 or higher.
Edit: I didn't know this was pathfinder, I just assumed it was your homebrew for 5e.
Seperatly you call it a check, which means it wouldn’t be impacted by these saving throw alterations but would be impacted by anything which alters all ability checks such as the bard’s Jack of all Trades, or more concerningly, the combination of the rogue’s reliable talent and any way to gain proficiency in it, which is basically an automatic success.
Its a Flat Check. You take a D20 without any bonuses or penalties and compare it against a target number (DC10). No traits, no abilities, no effects are accounted in that check.
Just so you know, the Dying i was listing is from Pathfinder 2nd Edition, not DnD 5e.
This sounds way too complicated. It probably was the intention. Nice trolling. Doesnt help but heh.
It might seem a bit complicated if you're only used to 5e, because core mechanics like conditions work rather differently in Pathfinder, but it's honestly much more flexible than 5e's system. Rather than having an abstract number of passes and fails, you have a single number that fluctuates up and down. Less things to keep track of.
You do have the wounded condition on top of that, but it helps counter the thing you see in 5e where people pop up and down repeatedly with no consequences for repeatedly being beaten unconscious.
Since I'm enjoying the different rules shared here, here's a (from memory) rendition of the Fate RPG rules on encountering lethal amounts of damage.
DM and player discuss and assign an appropriate and interesting condition that moves the game along. That condition may be "dying" or could be something more interesting.
Players and the GM can invoke the new player condition to gain benefits and make other rolls easier or harder. (The core FATE rule.)
Weirdly, this covers a lot of interesting cases really well:
- the GM can invoke "dying" to keep the dying character from monopolizing the remaining combat in un-fun ways, and make it (taking lethal amounts of damage) have an in-game cost.
- the GM can invoke the "dying" condition in other ways to nudge players to find a way to lend aid ( like granting a character "encumbered" while they carry the "dying" character around)
- the "dying" player may be able to invoke "dying" as an "I'm very motivated" bonus if they're doing something very in-character that matters to their character
- "unconscious", "prone", "mostly paralyzed", can be a useful on-and-off conditions to represent recovery rolls that go badly
For GMs running a game of FATE, I recommend watching the "The Princess Bride", which milks the "dying" condition for interesting moments, in many delightful ways.
I have recently encountered ICON and come to really like its dying mechanic. Each time a character is reduced to 0HP they become incapacitated, but stable, and gain a wound. Each wound reduces max hp by 25% and only goes away after an adventure (quest). A character can help an incapacitated character (rescuing) bringing them up and healing them to their new max HP, which after one wound would be 75% of max. Second time dropping to 0hp, a second would and new max hp of 50% of original.
It gives good longevity in individual encounters and forces caution in the longer run.
Condition Dying
Not for NPCs, the goal is to keep players alive.
When hit points reach 0, the character drops Prone and becomes Dying
At the beginning of the round, we start with the Death saving throws.
Then, the character can either:
Move (prone = half movement). Cost: Free
Talking while dying. Cost = Free
Action. Cost = 3 levels of Exhaustion
Bonus Action. Cost = 1 level of Exhaustion
Reaction. Cost = 1 level of Exhaustion
It is not possible to get up.
Exhaustion: On the d20
1 = -1 on every d20
2 = -2 on every d20
......
9 = -9 on every d20
10 = death
Recovery **First ** shorts rest = - 1 Exhaustion Long rest = - 2 Exhaustion
Edits following comments :
so, the -1 exhaustion on short rests is only on the FIRST short rest that they use it on. They can't do it twice in a day. Also clarified the scaling. Love to you all
I used to run 5e for years and also use to make all kinds of house rules and systems just like this to get it to run how I wanted it to because it doesn't do much outside of combat out of the box. I read through the PF2e rulebook and kicked myself for not switching sooner because they have a rule for damn near everything I would want to run and super balanced at the same time.
If I had more time, PF2 is on my list for a game. I do know a DM, I just don't have the time yet in my scheduling. But yeah, I'm trying PF2 one day if I live long enough.
That's addressing a totally different issue to what the above piece, which is about maintaining action and agency when a PC is knocked unconscious.
The up-down yo-yo of 5e is a problem but the frustration here is when combat rounds are taking a while, it's so boring to just make one roll every 40 minutes.
Interesting concept, but I just need to ask for some clarification before I can consider using it for my players. Are the Exhaustion points you use disconnected from the condition Exhaustion, where you get various negative effects until death at the 6th point? If I read the last line correctly, you get 10 points and you die? If they're not regular points of exhaustion, a player can just use an action to heal themselves with a potion or spell, remove themselves from combat. Then they just need a short and long rest and they're good to go. I think this might make them too powerful in the long run. If you use regular points of Exhaustion, you suddenly raise the stakes, while still keeping the player's ability to move half movement and talk. Otherwise you're indtroducing another value to keep track of that might raise more questions than solve problems. Can they be removed with a powerful enough healing spell/potion?
Keep the system, but use regular points of Exhaustion instead. You get one action that'll really mess you up, where you are able to heal yourself, but you suffer the consequences of it after. Now that seems exciting. Just my two cents.
Exhaustion: On the d20
1 = -1 2 = -2 … 9 = -9 10 = death
I have no idea what this means.
Recovery First rest shorts = - 1 Exhaustion Long rest = - 2 Exhaustion
How does this interact with the existing rules for exhaustion that say you only lose one level of exhaustion per long rest? Do you have to track exhaustion from different sources separately? What is stopping the party from taking five one hour long short rests in one day to completely eradicate all exhaustion with little effort?
This is fairly broken: The dying character can just use their action or bonus action to heal themselves, teleport away, etc. and since the short rest rule makes exhaustion trivial to heal there is barely any risk of death or even a cost for going down.
I feel like this is an overly complex, not well-thought-out nor playtested "solution" trying to patch an issue that lies somewhere completely different. If your table is taking 30 minutes for a single round of combat, either you have way too many players at the table or someone doesn't know how to run their characters. It takes some time when you're just getting started out but eventually every player (and the DM running their NPCs) should be familiar with what their character is going to do in combat and most of it should flow quite automatically. Your players (and the DM) should be planning their move during the others' turns and visibly displaying an initiative tracker letting players know when they're up can encourage them to be ready on time. If someone is taking inordinately long, say their character is too indecisive to act and skip their turn, they'll shape up in less than 5 minutes. Ban phones at the table, seriously.
I do like how your first sentence is "I have no idea what this means" and then follow up with more text saying how I'm wrong than my rule took.
If you were wondering, 1 level means -1 on your d20s.
That's because I take away the old system of exhaustion completely.
The short rest respite is only on the FIRST short rest of the day.
Yup. A player could take their bonus action to heal, get back up by themselves. Oh no, autonomy. For one level of exhaustion that is on you until the combat ends, making you worst at everything until your short rest if it's the first of the day, or long rest like 99 % of all problems.
You are right, I do play with people not as good at DND as me. I still play with them. Oh no.
Anything else to ask before dishing out a critic when you don't really understand it in the first place ? I'm honestly happy to talk, I would prefer with people asking before dishing out thought.