Reddit is in danger of a death spiral
Reddit is in danger of a death spiral
Can Reddit survive as its volunteer workforce close down subreddits and walk away from the site in protest at the management's new policies?
Huffman has said, "We are not in the business of giving that [Reddit's content] away for free." That stance makes sense. But it also ignores the reality that all of Reddit's content has been given to it for free by its millions of users. Further, it leaves aside the fact that the content has been orchestrated by its thousands of volunteer moderators.
touché
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It's literally not "Reddit's content". Says so in the user agreement:
You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content [...]
Huffman should be careful calling it "Reddit's content" — by claiming ownership, he's arguably taking on liability.
The [stuff in brackets] is editorial. That's when they add on their own reference to something said elsewhere.
In this case, huffpig didn't actually say content. He said data.
It's actually worse, because it dehumanizes everyone on reddit, via that the data is our only value to him.
So, fuck huffpig
I think the word "data" also supports the theory that this is actually about training data for LLMs rather than ad revenue. If it was actually about 3rd party apps, then why not just require all apps to feed the ads? But according to the Apollo developer, there wasn't even a way to fetch the ads through the API.
I think spez saw what OpenAI/Microsoft were accomplishing using parsed data and got dollar signs in his eyes. The irony is that OpenAI probably already ripped every comment off Reddit up until now, and don't really need more going forward.
I mean it's also true that they could just have read the web pages, but the API actually cost reddit less than rendering the full web page for all the data.
That's just the thing, it has nothing to do with API or server cost. It's all about presenting ads and collecting user data.
Yea, it's clearly not about just money, because they could have fed ads via the API, or made it part of reddit premium for the user to keep using the API ad free. I can't say how many people would have rage quite anyway, but the way they're doing it doesn't give anyone who likes other apps any reason to pay reddit money, that's for sure. And does inspire people to leave.
I hesitate to say I have all these ideas that would have worked better because I haven't seen their research on their existing premium paid product or expected conversion rates for API access (at per user monthly subs), so maybe the research says they've got ALL the paying members they'll ever get and they need to force ever more ads instead for money - but given they've had years and years to think about this and have tried almost nothing makes me think they're either very unimaginative or just are bad at innovation or even just trying stuff other people already have except for tunnel vision on ads.
I kinda feel like you're not wrong here, because tbh if it was just a matter of charging me for a premium membership and making me put in a key somewhere in rif to validate my api calls (as much as I really hate myself for saying this, too) I absolutely would've just considered reddit another sub like my Gamepass or Spotify that I happily added into my (meager) entertainment budget.
If Spez hadn't gone after 3rd party app developers like this and instead had framed it as a 'this is a growing pain part of reddit's development, and in order to sustain growth/blahblahblah/whatthefuckever we need money from you 3rd party app using fuckers' I honestly would've been like, "well, you're a greedy fuck for ransoming the last decade+ of my online activity (basically) but ok, fine, I'll buy premium to maintain the status quo."
But wow, to mishandle such a huge deal THIS cataclysmically badly? And then double down on that, in some weird, tone-deaf defiance? Fuck you, man.
I may not have set it up or anything, but this was a test that /u/spez failed miserably - even after being allowed an open-book retake with the questions he missed marked.
If it was actually about AI they would have solved the issue quickly by offering different prices for 3rd party apps. The fact that they aren't doing that clearly shows that they want to kill apps.
By that logic I guess he will have to start paying redditors for their content.
They really should be paying, all of these data companies should. No other business gets away with not paying for the materials they use to make their product. You can't build and sell a car without paying for the nuts and bolts.
Data companies like Facebook and Google keep telling us the data we give them has no value, yet they use that data they collect for free and sell for pure profit to become some of the wealthiest businesses in the world.
I mean, it's only fair.
Why not post the whole sub-section:
5. Your Content
The Services may contain information, text, links, graphics, photos, videos, audio, streams, or other materials (“Content”), including Content created with or submitted to the Services by you or through your Account (“Your Content”). We take no responsibility for and we do not expressly or implicitly endorse, support, or guarantee the completeness, truthfulness, accuracy, or reliability of any of Your Content.By submitting Your Content to the Services, you represent and warrant that you have all rights, power, and authority necessary to grant the rights to Your Content contained within these Terms. Because you alone are responsible for Your Content, you may expose yourself to liability if you post or share Content without all necessary rights.
You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content:
When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
Any ideas, suggestions, and feedback about Reddit or our Services that you provide to us are entirely voluntary, and you agree that Reddit may use such ideas, suggestions, and feedback without compensation or obligation to you.
Although we have no obligation to screen, edit, or monitor Your Content, we may, in our sole discretion, delete or remove Your Content at any time and for any reason, including for violating these Terms, violating our Content Policy, or if you otherwise create or are likely to create liability for us.
I didn't post it all because (1) it's long and most of it isn't directly pertinent, and (2) this is the Web, we have hyperlinks.
:)