SLRPNK community discussion - August 2023
SLRPNK community discussion - August 2023
So there are a few topics that came up lately that I think would be nice to discuss with members of this community.
Basically this is part of writing a Code of Conduct for our instance and I think we need to talk about some specific type of posts:
Doomers
Naturally the themes discussed in our communities are attracting a lot of climate doomer comments and I would say we also have a significant number of "recovering doomers" here as community members.
Earlier this week I considered closing the /c/collapse community on SRLPNK, because it is not actively moderated and attracts a lot of these types, even though ex_06 (who asked me to have their account re-activated, but not as an admin) originally intended it to be more of a psychological self-help group for people trying to get to terms with the likely loss of many things that defined their life so far.
While the typical doomer could probably need some psychological support, they are usually still in a stage of grief that makes them lash out and not engage in a constructive exchange how to make the best of the current difficult situation we sadly find ourselves in.
Mostly I have been doing temporary bans for such doomers to cool down and not spread their doom and gloom endlessly in our communities, but I think we need to come up with a common idea how to deal with this better.
Discussing civil disobedience
aka Direct Action or the other man's "Eco Terrorist" (yeah right...).
Obviously this is a topic many climate activists find themselves more and more confronted with and you might already be involved with a group engaged in such actions of civil disobedience. And lets not forget about the punk in Solarpunk either :)
However, obviously this is a public web-site and thus easily monitored by law-enforcement and other people that might be interested in reporting such discussions to the local authorities. Thus to protect this service and also our users from themselves we can't really allow planning discussions with specific targets or generally calls for action against specific persons to happen here out in the open (or in the semi-public direct messages).
Obviously, we can never condone violence against persons, but aside from that please be careful with discussing climate activism on the clear-web and rather use fully end to end encrypted means with people you can trust!
However this has obviously a large grey area and people might have stronger views on what should and should not be discussed here.
Absolute Vegans
Vegans are obviously welcome on SLRPNK and I think we can all agree that strongly reducing the consumption of animal products is a worthy goal.
However, there are some very opinionated (online) Vegans / animal rights activists that (intentionally or not) are indistinguishable from trolls and generally very toxic to deal with. Please don't feel personally attacked by this, but I think we need to come up with something regarding this in our code of conduct.
So these were the three topics I had in my mind lately, but feel free to discuss others as well.
I am looking forward to your thoughts on this!
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What is a doomer exactly to you / others in the community? Do I fall into that category because i dont believe the climate catastrophe will be stopped or are there specific talking points and behaviors that are more specifically associated with being a doomer?
(I dont want to start a discussion, just wanting to find a common understanding about the term doomer.)
I'd put it at the point where people express or imply that it's not worth acting to try and limit the damage. That's usually expressed via things like negative-nelly style commenting, and consistent claims that people won't act, even when there are efforts to push them towards action.
I agree with this. I sometimes still find myself starting to type something unconstructive, just snarky or negative, and then delete the thing. I could have done something useful outside instead, like plant a tree, or less radically just written a supportive comment to someone else instead. So, inside I feel the doom, things are utter shite without any doubt, but exposing this feeling and spreading it does nothing to reduce the amount of doom, it rather increases it. Only me seeding, sewing, raising little ones, finding out how to do everything in a good way and respecting others. If it gets too doomy, a little dark humour is permitted. But the "we all will die!!!" kind of thing is not helpful. Yes, we all will die, one day, and till that arrives we keep doing good stuff.
Define "stopped" in the context of climate change. The fact you called it "climate catastrophe" and implied that it can't be "stopped" reveals a root of doomerism. It's not an all-or-nothing thing; we don't have to completely stop it to make a better world.
It's a slow, gradual process and we can organise to influence its course. Anti-capitalism, on the ground organising, mutual aid, mutual defense, economic cooperation, all these are structures we can build now that will weaken the dominant order and create a network of power that can be ready to pick up the pieces as that dominant order crumbles. Even if there isn't one moment where it all topples I imagine you'd be surprised at how fast things can change when conditions are right and the ground is prepared. What this requires though is that we don't give up. We can't believe the lie of the hegemon. It wants us to believe it is in control of everything, but it's not.
We live under capitalism, it's power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. - Ursula K Le Guin.
Hey thanks for pointing out some things about the way i worded this. I guess I kinda tried to make my personal position more provocative to better test the waters.
I think I agree with many things you said, especially this part
It’s a slow, gradual process and we can organise to influence its course. Anti-capitalism, on the ground organising, mutual aid, mutual defense, economic cooperation, all these are structures we can build now that will weaken the dominant order and create a network of power that can be ready to pick up the pieces as that dominant order crumbles. Even if there isn’t one moment where it all topples I imagine you’d be surprised at how fast things can change when conditions are right and the ground is prepared.
Define “stopped” in the context of climate change.
Even when we dont apply binary thinking to climate catastrophe itself we can see if goals ( like keeping global warming below 1.5°C or more local ones ) related to mitigating climate catastrophe reached. I feel like many of those goals are out of reach and will be missed. That doesnt mean I would argue for inaction.
What this requires though is that we don’t give up.
I dont like that sentiment. You probably mean it on a collective level, but individuals who are burned out or have other reasons to give up should be able to do so without getting made feel bad. Sometimes giving up just sets up the stage for even more intense struggle.
Fair enough, I certainly didn't think you were arguing for inaction. I just think inaction can come from doomerism, which can come from the binary way of thinking. When I said it was a "root of doomerism", that's all I meant. I wasn't trying to tell you what's in your own mind.
And I totally agree that taking breaks is important. It's the always-always-grind-never-stop-producing logic of capitalism that is destroying the planet after all. That's not what I mean by giving up, although I can see that's how it might sound. To me giving up characterises doomerism, and I think believing we're doomed can worsen burnout.
My own politics of prefiguration is what gives me hope. Part of the goal of prefiguration, apart from building an alternative, displacing the current order and laying the groundwork for what comes after, is to actually make life better now.
Like for instance I think the fediverse is necessary to clean up our information ecosystem. We build that now, even while the dominant but fragile centralised systems exist. As it displaces them it also creates structures that, as they grow, will be better equipped to pick up the pieces as those other systems crumble. If they have some critical moment of collapse, the stronger our ecosystem is, the better it will be able to step up and deal with that event.
But the other part of that is, it's kind of really nice to be here right now. There's a hopeful attitude and although the content is a bit thinner than it was on reddit, the conversations are much better. It's become a really good parallel in my mind for explaining prefigurative politics IRL.
Even if we're doomed, building a better world where we are will help us bear that reality. And if we're not, we're building the new world, and that kind of slaps.
Anyway, that's the focus of my hope.
I think 'doomer' is too vague a term.
I could plausibly be categorized as a doomer, I think we're already too far along the path towards catastrophe and the forces against us are too big to stop it in time. But I don't give up and keep acting, because every act of resistance still matters (and will always matter). It's pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will; to say it with a Gramscian saying.