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Your cops are bad too
I can't remember the last time I heard of some european police shooting someones spaniel or flashbanging a toddler tbh, not saying they're flawless, just on a different level.
I imagine every cop being armed to the teeth is probably worse lol.
Blatant violence committed by police is not the only reason cops are bad. They are also the enforcers against journalists, worker action, environmental and climate activism, and so on. Even when those folks are behaving entirely lawfully, cops or prosecutors or other government officials just make up bullshit charges to arrest and intimidate folks.
Richard Medhurst is a notable recent example in the UK.
Well, you're describing violence inherent to the system. When people talk about cops being bad, they usually mean that cops don't just uphold the bad law, that's kind of given, but commit extrajudicial violence
My encounters with the police have been civil and positive. However, I'm not Roma so...
All cops are
I don't understand the argument behind ACAB. How can anyone think that. I never have understood this.
I think it's a response to the common "a few bad apples" excuse.
The assertion being that to be a cop you have to overlook so many bad apples that at best, you're a bastard for enabling the bad apples.
Perhaps another way to say the same thing, at times in any profession, if you're unable to improve whatever situation then you're only recourse is to resign because being involved would compromise you.
Ah. So it's basically a "guilty by association" type of argument. Despite doing everything in your power to be a good cop, by being employed by the same place that employs a bad cop/bad cops, you're a bad cop.
I... have mixed feelings. I could have some bias because my brother is to study at the university to become a cop. He's a humble, standup guy. Again, possible bias, and it's anecdotal, but I didn't think ACAB before learning he was to study to become a cop, either.
It just doesn't make sense to me that everyone that looks to become a cop is that type of power hungry snake/murderer that you sometimes see in videos. Some people just want to serve and protect their community. Some just want the excitement of booking bad guys. Some have their own unique reason for becoming a cop. And some seek an outlet to exert power over innocent people. But not everyone, I just can't believe that.
I guess it boils down to a definition of "bad" in the end? To me, it feels unjust to treat all cops the same just because they are all cops. Bad apples should be treated as bad apples, and good ones as good apples. In the end, the good apples are fighting a good fight IMO, and people in all lines of work sometimes have to work alongside people doing less good than them, or just straight up evil.
No, it's not a "guilty by association" type argument.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the ACAB argument. It seems that way in the US, but I don't have any direct experience with that. In Australia I've never encountered a bastard cop, nor even heard of an experience like that, aside from a few instances I've heard of in the media.
I think it comes down to the prevalence of misconduct.
In some police services there may indeed be just one or two officers who are bastards and in that case you're obviously not a bastard just because you work in the same service provided you're not actively covering up their behavior.
In other services where there's a culture of violence and cronyism et cetera, it would become impossible to serve the community without at least passively condoning the misbehavior of others. This is the situation where one could like at the entire service and say, that all of them are bastards even if they're not directly perpetrating violence.
This all makes sense to me. 🤝
cronyism
That's a good word I learned today. Thank you for that one.
And thanks for this productive exchange. Exactly what I was looking for. ❤️
ACAB isn't just about police brutality though. Isn't Australia's surveillance situation pretty bad? I include that sorta stuff.
Also, assuming you aren't yourself Aboriginal, those folks seem to feel (based on a quick web search) suppressed from speaking out about the violence and harassment they experience from Australian cops.
Australia's freedom score is better than the US.
There are a myriad of social issues faced by First Australians (Aboriginals) including police brutality. Any summation I would try to give would be reductive given the complex history and various mitigation strategies that have occurred.
However, as I pointed out earlier it's the prevalence of misbehavior amongst officers that determines whether it's possible to be a police officer without passively condoning that sort of behavior.
Perhaps the behavior of Australian Police warrants the ACAB label in your view, it doesn't in mine.
I believe that all cops are bad.
It doesn't mean I think every cop is personally bad in their private life. It means that it doesn't matter how good or bad a cop is as a private individual. As soon as they put on that uniform they become the enforcers of unjust laws, and the enforcers of persecution against minorities, journalists, workers taking collective action, environmental and climate activists, human rights activists...the list goes on.
All cops are bad because the very nature of being a cop overrides any personal merit the cop may otherwise have.
This video by Thought Slime explains quite well what is usually meant by ACAB, and explains what the alternatives are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk5xnEL8mYg
Very interesting, thank you for this input. This is the kind of insight I was looking for. I guess I was focused on this part:
It doesn't mean I think every cop is personally bad in their
privateprofessional life.But as you say, merely participating in the system makes them bad. Not individually, but as a concept.
In that case, I think it's important not to blame the cops, but the system. Because we all know there are many of them who are not trying to uphold the unjust laws, but the just laws. Sometimes in life you have to take the good with the bad, and surely that is what many officers are doing.
All those individuals are trying to do is make a positive impact on their community, and protect its members.
So in this type of reasoning, I think we're putting the focus on the wrong thing, the cops. Whereas we should be putting the focus on regulators, law makers, etc.
I'll bite. Do you want an actual answer, or do you just want the opportunity to publicly clutch your pearls?
Just give your answer anyways, you don't need their permission. I believe that ACAB myself but I'm always eager to read why others agree with me
Just give your answer anyways, you don't need their permission.
Very true. I wish they would've done that instead of immediately low-key insulting me.
I believe that ACAB
Okay, I'll listen to your reasoning if you're willing to share. 🙂
I think I want an answer from someone with less attitude. I'm not here to argue, but to have calm discussions. Next, please. 👉