Elon Musk insults German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier – DW – 12/31/2024
Elon Musk insults German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier – DW – 12/31/2024
Tesla boss Elon Musk has added German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier to the list of politicians he has insulted in Europe. He also announced a plan to speak to the leader of the country's far-right AfD.
(...) Plans for online Musk-Weidel meeting
The spokesman for the leader of the AfD, Alice Weidel, said concrete plans were underway for an online meeting between her and Musk.
That came after Musk himself suggested a meeting between the two via X's Spaces chat feature. "Wait until Alice and I do an X Spaces conversation. They will lose their minds," he posted. (...)
"Elon Musk is equipped with billions and unbridled communication power," Habeck wrote on X. "His call for the AfD is systematic: He wants to weaken Europe. Power must be limited: no business model must destroy our democracy. Europe must now use its power consistently."
Concerns are also growing in the UK as Musk takes an increasingly close interest in Britain's political scene, aligning himself with hard-right lawmaker Nigel Farage.
Musk has busied himself with taking aim at the UK's center-left Labour government, launching a series of blistering comments against British Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
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That's three months to five years prison time:
(1) Wer öffentlich, in einer Versammlung oder durch Verbreiten eines Inhalts (§ 11 Absatz 3) den Bundespräsidenten verunglimpft, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft.
(2) In minder schweren Fällen kann das Gericht die Strafe nach seinem Ermessen mildern (§ 49 Abs. 2), wenn nicht die Voraussetzungen des § 188 erfüllt sind.
(3) Die Strafe ist Freiheitsstrafe von sechs Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren, wenn die Tat eine Verleumdung (§ 187) ist oder wenn der Täter sich durch die Tat absichtlich für Bestrebungen gegen den Bestand der Bundesrepublik Deutschland oder gegen Verfassungsgrundsätze einsetzt.
(4) Die Tat wird nur mit Ermächtigung des Bundespräsidenten verfolgt.
https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/90.html
Would be kind of awesome if Frank-Walter pushes this
Give Elon a break. He learned everything he knows about Germany in Mein Kampf and that's not in it.
I would love to see European Arrest Warrant being issued for Musk.
Yeah, that would be pretty bad ass.
But if he was outside of german jurisdiction when he did it, he didn't actually commit a crime, no?
The 'success' has also been established in Germany when he made it available on his Xitter-account.
Strafgesetzbuch (StGB) § 5 Auslandstaten mit besonderem Inlandsbezug
Das deutsche Strafrecht gilt, unabhängig vom Recht des Tatorts, für folgende Taten, die im Ausland begangen werden:
(...)
- Gefährdung des demokratischen Rechtsstaatesa)
a) in den Fällen des § 86 Absatz 1 und 2, wenn Propagandamittel im Inland wahrnehmbar verbreitet oder der inländischen Öffentlichkeit zugänglich gemacht werden und der Täter Deutscher ist oder seine Lebensgrundlage im Inland hat,
b) in den Fällen des § 86a Absatz 1 Nummer 1, wenn ein Kennzeichen im Inland wahrnehmbar verbreitet oder in einer der inländischen Öffentlichkeit zugänglichen Weise oder in einem im Inland wahrnehmbar verbreiteten Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) verwendet wird und der Täter Deutscher ist oder seine Lebensgrundlage im Inland hat,
c) in den Fällen der §§ 89, 90a Abs. 1 und des § 90b, wenn der Täter Deutscher ist und seine Lebensgrundlage im räumlichen Geltungsbereich dieses Gesetzes hat, und
d) in den Fällen der §§ 90 und 90a Abs. 2;
German Criminal Code (StGB)
Section 5 Foreign offenses with a special domestic connection
German criminal law applies, regardless of the law of the place of the offense, to the following offenses committed abroad:
(...)
- Endangering the democratic constitutional state
a) in the cases of Section 86 (1) and (2), if propaganda material is perceptibly disseminated in Germany or made available to the domestic public and the perpetrator is German or has his livelihood in Germany,
b) in the cases of Section 86a (1) no. 1, if a distinctive sign is perceptibly disseminated in Germany or used in a manner accessible to the domestic public or in content perceptibly disseminated in Germany (Section 11 (3)) and the perpetrator is German or has his livelihood in Germany,
c) in the cases of Sections 89, 90a (1) and Section 90b if the perpetrator is German or has his livelihood in Germany. 1 and Section 90b, if the offender is German and has his or her livelihood in the territorial scope of this Act, and
d) in the cases of Sections 90 and 90a (2);
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Elon wouldn't visit Germany as long as he might face consequences and I don't think the US would extradite him.
Elon wouldn't visit Germany as long as he might face consequences
That would be the entire EU, not just Germany. That would make his life certainly more difficult so I sincerely hope Germans push for the consequences.
Elon wouldn’t visit Germany as long as he might face consequences and I don’t think the US would extradite him.
How about waiting until he visits Germany and then starting the prosecution and promptly incarceration of this foreign criminal?
Let's not wait until trump starts his term, though. I don't trust trump not to invoke the USA's ICC contingency plan on the whole of the EU if his master of "efficiency" gets arrested here.
I see. Thanks.
We also have laws against citizens negotiating with foreign governments on behalf of the United States.
The effect of his actions happened in Germany, that's enough. I don't think it's among the laws where it's sufficient if the victim is German, and Musk isn't German so that category doesn't apply either. It's also not a war crime, genocide, etc, where Germany prosecutes anyone doing anything to anyone anywhere.
OTOH no, Steinmeier is not going to authorise prosecution over this. Even assuming it is an insult and not a pointedly formulated, and wrong, critique, the point of the law in practice is to not use it.
Germany is just playing PR games again and everyone is buying it. They love musk, they kissed his ass to get a Tesla plant. Germany is not as progressive as it claims and continues to court and kiss Elon's ass
You know that "Germany" is not one person doing stuff, right? And that the current government is different from the one when the Tesla plant was approved and that that was also in big part done by one of the federal states? And that that was long before Musk bought Twitter and fryed his brain?
Keep making excuses. I don't see Germany returning the government. And this who "it's not one person" argument about countries is idiotic. By that metric you're not allowed to criticize a country and it's government ever
Found the clueless American
Texas and California are also totally the same entity responsible for each others actions right?
Dude, what are you talking about?
a silly law for a silly country
How so? What do you find silly about it?
Why do we need to treat these people as if they are majesty? It's a stupid remnant of feudalism. For the privilege of being the highest ranking official they should have to endure being called a "tyrant" here and there, even if the accusations are spurious.
It's not about treating them like majesty, but about protecting the office/position and democracy.
Germany has stronger protection against personal insults than other countries like the USA. Personally, I think that's a good thing. That you the law defines that insulting others [for no reason], putting them down, and verbally abusing them is not ok.
Those things, slander, lies, and insults serve and push division and destabilize democracy and society. No from one statement, but their sum.
I'd like to reverse the premise: Why would a president, representing a country, have to accept unbased lies and insults against them? What's the upside to that?
Why?