What’s the deal with lemmy.world and beehaw?
What’s the deal with lemmy.world and beehaw?
I don’t get what the problem is? Anyone can elaborate.
Edit: Thank you all for shedding more light on this topic. I’ve never really used flatpak but I do understand it better now!
All of these services are very new. Exactly what people want out of them — including what the people operating instances want out of them — is still being worked out.
This is not a commercial production service that you have a contract with. It's an experimental system run by volunteers who don't all have the same ideas in mind. People aren't just working out the kinks — the process of discovering what this is all really for is still ongoing.
Expect friction. Expect weirdness. Expect rapid growth and, therefore, rapid change.
Also, expect people to fuss when they get surprised they can't do something they want to. That's also normal.
To clarify a minor point, beehaw isn't new. It was established in Feb 2022, and it's been thriving with a relatively small community up until this months crazy growth. They're not so much finding their feet as trying to maintain an existing communities safety in the face of rapid growth.
Good point!
(Folks should still expect change, and be patient with the people running this stuff.)
@ada ie: not putting up with toxic redditors. Not just finding it's feet, but now recovering from a 4 week bender and woke up finding it's knee caps as well.
Beehaw is meant to be a safe space, mitigating toxicity, while other instances, by having registration open to all without moderation, causes that.
By being federated, they can interact with one another. Beehaw defederated them in order to avoid that. The main argument being that the modding tools right now aren't good enough to help them do it any other way.
That's a bummer. I really liked Beehaw but wasn't able to sign up for whatever reason, which is why I signed up here. Sucks that hateful jerks can ruin it for everyone.
Sucks that hateful jerks can ruin it for everyone.
The history of humanity
Sucks that some bad actors caused the defederation, but I understand the reasoning. Modding is a difficult and largely thankless job, and without a good set of tools to keep that kind of behavior out and nothing else but the big "block 'em" switch, it seems to have left them at an impasse.
The short version is that beehaw was struggling with the (currently) limited toolset available to moderate user content, and they saw a heap of users posting things they don't allow on their instance were coming from the two other big instances, so it was more effective for them to defederate to try and stem the tide.
I imagine regeneration will occur in future when the lemmyverse stabilises a little, and when better mod tools are available
lemmy.world has had a handful of back to back queerphobic trolls spamming hate across multiple groups and instances.
They would get banned and come right back.
The reason they were able to do that is because of the open signups on lemmy.world.
Beehaw is an instance that takes protecting their members as their highest goal. They value it significantly more than wide federation.
And so they blocked lemmy.world, as it was a source of bigotry towards their members, and there were no other moderation tools available to them to resolve the issue.
Beehaw is an instance that takes protecting their members as their highest goal. They value it significantly more than wide federation.
This makes a lot of sense -- thanks for clarifying it like this.
Hopefully we can find a way to stop trolls like that without having to block an entire instance. One of the reasons I signed up for lemmy.world was because the rules ban queerphobia and trolls, so it sucks to see that people are abusing the open signup to spread their hate.
What instances don't have open signup? I'm on kbin but also signed up to sh.itjust.works and another instance because I had no idea what I was doing. The only difference was that one of them required that I write a quick blurb on why I wanted to join. What does a closed signup look like?
The one with the blurb "why do you want to join" is the one with closed sign-ups.
Exactly like that quick blurb you had. It was manually read and approved by an admin. Open registration means it does not need manual approval. You get the account instantly, maybe after automated email verification.
It's not just the open sign ups, it's the combination of multiple factors
- Lemmy.world is the largest and fastest growing instance leading to a lot of low-effort content/spam
- Their size and open sign-ups mean trolls just make new accounts when they get banned, making bans ineffective
- Lemmy's moderation tools are not yet up to the task of dealing with this problem at this scale
There are closed signups (no new folk at all), open signups (everyone can join instantly) and limited sign ups (you have to apply to join and be approved by an admin)
How long does it take, do you know, for Beehaw to approve sign ups? I signed up 3 days ago and have yet to receive a verification email. I originally signed up on lemmy.ml and received verification in about an hour, but ended up deleting that account do that instance's... problematic nature. I'm on sh.itjust.works right now, but would rather be on Beehaw.
I signed up [on beehaw] a week or two ago and never got an email from them, but there was a thread at the time where people were praising the quick signup turnaround time (I want to say this was either just before or just after the creator of Apollo announced he was shutting down at the end of June, so signups were building but not as quickly) and I tried to sign in on a whim based on that and it worked.
Try to login with the creds you set. I never received a follow up email and on a whim tried my creds and it worked.
That being said, I know they also are having problems approving all of the new applicants given the influx and manual process. Keep trying though! While I'm on Kbin as well, Beehaw is my preferred instance so far given the structure and moderation.
I like how lemmy.ml is the 'problematic' community and not beehaw that not even a week in lemmy's surge is trying to enforce it's ethics on the whole lemmy community by de-federating newer instances.
Ethics you actually don't meet by the way, they just don't bother to 'officially' reject people they don't approve, it's on their FAQ.
They defederated with lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works apparently due to trolls. We got a post over on our main chat by some asshat who claimed to have posted dick pics on a feminist community over there and has since been banned. It's largely due to the open registration policy both lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works have. They are probably going to blanket ban any instances with open registration.
Soooooo, is this instance possible going to be defedarred? Isn’t kbin.social open registration?
It definitely could happen. I know there's been a lot of focus on insufficient moderator tools on Lemmy. We'll see if kbin has the same issue.
Sounds like they want a safe space, and federating with more lax servers makes it hard to do that, so they've essentially blocked everyone coming from lemmy.world
beehaw.org blocked lemmy.world. which works like you'd expect blocking someone would work. they can't interact with each other, can't participate in each other's communities, etc.
So why do I still see posts from them in my subscribed feed?
lemmy.world still "has" content from beehaw before the block happened. you can still see it and interact with it, but anything you do on beehaw communities that you have copies of won't get synced to beehaw, and thus can't be seen by anyone else on the fediverse.
you shouldn't be getting new posts from beehaw at all, other than comments inside of non-beehaw communities (such as in a kbin magazine where a beehaw user comments).
Well that's annoying, I was enjoying a lot of beehaw content and they never approved my registration application.
Anyone know of the next biggest instance that federates with them?
kbin.social is pretty nice, though not nearly as big. I have an account there and it's enjoyable. The UI is better in some aspects, worse in others.
You can also see the instances beehaw federates with and choose your own here:
Content from another instance only shows up on lemmy.world and you can only participate there with your lemmy.world account if the other instance federates with lemmy.world. Beehaw is not a fan of the higher moderation workload with the influx of lemmy.world users, whether they're real people or bots. That's why they decided to stop federating with instances with open registration, like lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. Some people are pretty upset about the decision while others show more understanding or even welcome the step by the Beehaw admins.
Seems reasonable.
I imagine an influx of ~100,000 Redditors is gonna be stressful on any community.