I’m brand new to Nix, and I was just checking out the release schedule (NixOS 24.05 — Release Schedule · Issue #303285 · NixOS/nixpkgs · GitHub) to figure out if I should hold off for the new release (I prefer sticking to stable branches) or not. While browsing, I stumbled upon a comment regarding J...
incorrectly stated their status as a ban rather than a suspension.
They should clearly know that they're suspended rather than banned especially since they themselves linked to the GitHub moderation commit which states as such.
> I'm not innocent, but it's hard to stay impartial when you're so invested in a project and community.
What's the intent of this statement?
> I don't want to play their "victim/oppressor" narrative, so I'm evil incarnate.
> It's also to "tone police" the rest of the community from speaking against their actions.
> Any rational person would want to avoid dealing with that hornets nest.
> Now I'm irrational and banned! :(
Also I want to say great eye to [email protected] for spotting that!, as I didn't notice that critical information the first time I read through the discussions
^this suspension seems to make sense as Jonathan Ringer is:
Clearly in violation of Conflict of Interest due to their involvement with Lack of Disclosure - #1.
Still displaying on Reddit "willfully furthering the division in the community" as mentioned in the moderation commit action
They've caused problems in the past and it seems clear they haven't learned what really caused the suspension in the first place.
Their behavior is unsustainable so I can see the reason for the suspension, although at this point a permaban might be warranted due to the reasons stated above
Edit:
There's more bewildering comments from Jonathan it seems:
> This seems to be aligned with a similar attempt of mine #114 from 2021.
> The goal has been moved from "these are acceptable behaviors in this CoC" (114) to "these are how these behaviors should be enforced fairly". Which sounds good to me.
> I'll do a more thorough review, but feel confident that I would like to nominate myself as a shepherd.
Wow, that’s a great summary, thanks for putting all this effort.
no worries👍
I just happened to see this post and fell down the rabbit hole
Is he having a mental health breakdown? He’s using pretty odd phrasing to basically say he feels unjustly targeted.
I have no idea, can't really say anything about their mental state as I don't really know them
What I do know is that I personally wouldn't want them anywhere near my projects
I read the thread and now I'm more confused. Can someone explain what this is about to an outsider?
Edit: every thread I see is talking about talking about a discussion. What's the discussion??
Edit 2: Ok so far I got that this Jon guy doesn't like positive discrimination and 'politics' and also worked at the defense company that sponsored nix but doesn't support that (?) (which is also related to the diversity problem (?)) and there are also two open letters that are related (?) and people have been mean to him in threads. Anyone who isn't involved in nix community thinks good of him because he's very active and talks agreeably
I wish they'd all stop talking so superficially and just get to the point
The way things are going, the nixos community's going to be forked. If all you do is ask questions about nix itself on the nixos discourse, then things are fine. However if you step out line by suggesting change or voice your opinion against change that mods and foundation want, you're going to get flamed into oblivion.
Jon is just one of the many examples.
The NixOS community is forked on a regular basis. So is the nixpkgs community. The focus here is on control of CppNix, e.g. blocking the autotools-to-meson PR.
It's pretty easy to have opinions that the mods and Foundation don't like. Be polite and you'll be fine. Also, don't be like Jon, who thinks "polite" means smiling through gritted teeth and being passive-aggressive.
Which nixos community forks are there? I'm not aware of any?
It’s pretty easy to have opinions that the mods and Foundation don’t like. Be polite and you’ll be fine.
It's easy as long as you don't voice them. If they disagree, then it's the end of the discussion. They hold the power so whatever they don't like won't happen or your discussion will be moved to a new topic and unlisted. That does seem to happen fairly regularly.
As a first-hand account; Jon has been the nicest of all the maintainers I've had interactions with ( ~7), probably followed by Ryan Mulligan. The only reason I remember Jon's name (I usually just recognize maintainers by their profile pictures) is because a couple years ago, as part of this thread I was reading this github issue with a really rude/attacking user. I remember reading Jon's response and thinking "This is one of the most patient FOSS devs on all of Github".
However, take ^that as-is, because I am not up to date on anything recent. I just wanted to provide the small bit of insight I do have.
Here's some of my interactions for those who like to judge for themselves:
them being nice and all is nice however they are causing real problems and stirring drama for troubles that they caused
I don't really understand the reasoning behind vouching for them when they are currently creating problems and haven't really tried to solve anything besides creating enough drama to (what it seems to me) try and force themselves back into direct repository access
I kinda of see their past and current actions as ways to maintain a position of power which is quite problematic as they still haven't addressed a key concern being their conflict of interest from working with Anduril
being nice is good for maintaining good social cohesion and whatnot but stirring shit and creating real problems kinda negates it
This thread claims it has nothing to do with Anduril.
Makes it sound like he has better communicates with computers than with people. And people that better communicate with peoples than computers were offended.
If that is the case, him being nice has everything to do with it, as it differentiates between bad intentions and low communication skills.
To be clear: I have know insight into the internals of this clusterfuck. Just looking from the side at splater of shit from the fan.
Absolutely, I didn't mean my comment as excuse or justification. I personally don't want any sponsored people on the board. Defense contractor or otherwise.
I'm still trying to disentangle the "stirring up drama" part though.