France bans 'steak' and 'escalope' labels from vegetarian products
France bans 'steak' and 'escalope' labels from vegetarian products
The French government issued a decree Tuesday banning the term "steak" on the label of vegetarian products, saying it was reserved for meat alone.
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ITT: Vegans with a chip on their shoulder demanding that stuff they want to buy be labelled the same as stuff they don't want to buy.
Next up: People demanding that meat be labelled cauliflower to fight fire with fire. I mean it's special meat engineered to have the texture and taste of cauliflower, why shouldn't it be labelled cauliflower?
I have never seen a plant based product labeled the same as a animal product. What I see is is [Beef steak] or [Plant based Steak made from..]
Vegan products have a clear label on them and they want you to know that it plant based because people buy it for that reason, be it to avoid animal cruelty, the destruction of the environment or their own health.
Vegan products have a clear label on them
And why shouldn't meat products have a clear label?
Yes, I think I advocated here alone two to three times for that and I will stay by your side if you do demand that.
We could make it easier for all with a “animal product” label but at the moment it is only the animal industry which is lobbying for restrictive product names.
If you don’t want to then legislate for a label like the (V)egan label and put it on all products made from animals, I would still support you.
I am all in for clear description of food and a big label if it contains animal suffering and the destruction of the eco system or if it is plant based.
That kind of label already exists: It resembles the shape of the letters "Steak" so closely one might even mistake it for the word.
Why, pray tell, are you insistent on diluting the clarity of that label? Is it so aesthetically pleasing to you that you just cannot help yourself but enjoy it even though you don't want to have to do anything with meat?
Well, I guess it shows that some people learn only shapes instead of reading.
Still unclear who was killed, maybe there are some more shapes around? They indicate what Animal it was, you know there is more than one?
Now imagine if you will, we could use that space where it says "pig" and replace it with "saitan" for example? Mind blown, if you put 2 or more of these cryptic runes together we can transport more information.
I don't care much for it, it is for those who want to stop supporting the destruction of the planet and the murdering of billions of sentient beings for their pleasure. It makes it easier for them if they don't have to change too much.
Now imagine if you will, we could use that space where it says “pig” and replace it with “saitan” for example? Mind blown,
Now imagine if you will, we could use that space where it says "organic" and replace it with "pork", for example? "pork cauliflower". Makes perfect sense.
I don’t care much for it, it is for those who want to stop supporting the destruction of the planet and the murdering of billions of sentient beings
No. It is for people who want to proclaim superior morality but are too lazy to switch their shopping habits from "steak" to "soy patty". If y'all are so virtuous that should really not be an issue for you.
Who do you think acts more superior, those who kill others for pleasure and destroy the ground, water and air by doing so, or those who don't need that? Lion on top of the food chain, thats what you are, right?
That's not the discussion at hand.
I tried very hard to have this discussion without getting into ethics, and I won't have that discussion either, even if you try to force it on me, even if your personal set of ethics is all you care about in the world at the expense of everything else, including seeing other people's point of view.
This is about labelling, in particular non-confusing labelling. And how "plant steak" is just as confusing and misleading as "meat cauliflower".
Just as confusing and nonsensical as "plastic paper" or "liquid mug". Are you cognitively capable of looking at those latter two terms without moralising? If yes, why not the the previous two?
I tried very hard to have this discussion without getting into ethics,
It is for people who want to proclaim superior morality
You go into it. Not me.
Tell me what part of which animal "Steak" is and show me there are no variants and you win.
It is not only steak, it is milk where the industry lobbied hard to prevent the use even though plant milk is older than the milk of other species.
Are you cognitively capable of looking at those latter two terms without moralising? If yes, why not the the previous two?
You are the one who brought up moral, maybe that is a you problem you should take care of without projecting.
You go into it. Not me.
You did:
it is for those who want to stop supporting the destruction of the planet and the murdering of billions of sentient beings for their pleasure.
You don't even notice it, do you. You're the walking, talking, stereotype of a preachy vegan, leaving out no opportunity to signal how oh superior you are to everyone else because you stick to a certain set of behaviours you call ethical. Tough luck: I'm not going to treat you as a saint for that but just like any other human with dietary preference for any random reason, and that's for your own good.
It is not only steak, it is milk where the industry lobbied hard to prevent the use even though plant milk is older than the milk of other species.
What. You mean the Indo-European Urpeople ground nuts into paste and diluted them with water? They definitely had millstones but that's a lot of work for what reason exactly, you can eat nuts and drink water without preparing them while meanwhile, they were nomadic pastoralists. It's where the lot of Europe and India have our lactose tolerance from. Indians even kept the whole religious status of cows thing.
Might look differently in other parts of the world but generally speaking pastoralism is way older than agriculture and with it millstones, much less electricity to make the whole process worth doing for anyone but kings out to impress people.
I don't think people want products to be labeled as meat products when they're not meat products that would be confusing.
But what's the problem in a vegetarian product in the style of a steak? Like maybe you don't want it but who cares?
So you're saying that mislabelling would be confusing, but if it affects me but not you you don't care.
You know that's not what I'm saying.
No one is going to mistake a vegetarian sausage for the real thing simply because the vegetarian stuff is labeled "vegetarian" in giant letters so people who will looking for vegetarian stuff can see it.
I'm actually torn on sausage but this thread is more specifically about steak and escalope. How do you even take saitan, do a butterfly cut, and beat it until it's flat, what you'd end up wouldn't be an escalope but soy paste.
So you admit that it's a completely pointless argument and yet you continue the completely pointless argument.
Who cares what they label things. It's not some weird conspiracy to get people to buy vegetarian products. It is literally the least important thing that's currently happening, and you're all behaving as if somehow it's some great conspiracy.
Who cares what they label things.
Me. I care. You care. Because we both are consumers and if something's on the label, then that thing should be in there. I don't want to buy beer and discover it's coke, or buy coke and discover it's beer. When I buy steak I want meat to be in there, When I buy saitan I expect soy in there, and not soylent green.
It’s not some weird conspiracy to get people to buy vegetarian products.
...and noone ever claimed so? At least not in this thread as far as I remember. Might've missed something. But while I'm at it, two points of critique to the meat substitute industry:
- Do your homework and come up with good marketing terms that don't piggy-back on words deeply associated with meat: In my mind we don't even need to begin to talk about sausages because "roll" is a perfectly fine word for such a product. "Saitan rolls for grilling": Why even start to bring meat associations into it.
- Sell your shit at sane markups. Many more people would buy meat substitutes if companies were willing to set prices for maximum sales instead of maximum ROI: Vegans are a (kinda) captive market, many are quite affluent, if you sell saitan for 30 bucks a kg they're going to buy it because they want it even though it costs like 1.50 to produce. It's cheaper to produce than mea sot it should be cheaper in the stores. Something something Zizek, companies are exploiting that phenomenon for profit while getting celebrated as ethical.
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The problem is precisely that nobody has an interest in mislabeling animal product alternatives, but these policies create the impression that the problem they claim to solve is real. This is nothing but useless bureaucracy and a PR stunt for the animal product industry, disguised as consumer protection.
The problem is precisely that nobody has an interest in mislabeling animal product alternatives
You haven't read the comments, have you. Tons and tons of purported reasoning of why saitan should be called steak.
It had to be labeled meat cauliflower and seems to be reasonable to call it that way. But wait till you hear about coconut milk or even worse meat-cheese (Leberkäs/Fleischkäse - traditional german sausage with no cheese what so ever).
It's a stupid comment anyway because no one would ever label cauliflower as anything but cauliflower.
Parents to make their children eat it?