Women-only museum becomes a toilet to keep men out
Women-only museum becomes a toilet to keep men out
Australia's Mona asked a court to reverse its ruling that allowed men inside a women's only space.
Australia's Mona asked a court to reverse its ruling that allowed men inside a women's only space.
Archived version: https://archive.ph/oHT6U
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Well isn't that about some hypocritical shit?!
From the article...
"The lounge, which contains some of the museum's most-acclaimed works - from Picasso to Sidney Nolan - has been closed to the public since the court's order."
Both Pablo Picasso and Sidney Nolan were both men!
If they're gonna play that 'women only' card, then they should remove all works created by men and move them to a proper open museum.
You're doing the thing the artist intended lol
Point is, art is art, and a museum is a museum. Anyone mature enough should be allowed to enter any museum they want and view whatever exhibits they want.
That gender specific crap can and does end up going both ways. And it shouldn't be that way, anywhere.
In a world where there are millions of men who actually believe women are advantaged over men in today's society, it's interesting to see the international uproar occurring over this single exhibit that made that belief actually true. A single exhibit at a sex museum in Tasmania that's literally about gender discrimination.
A single exhibit at a sex museum in Tasmania
Small point of order: MONA, despite how it sounds when pronounced as an acronym, is not a sex museum. It's the Museum of Old and New Art. You may return to your debate.
Personally, I'm finding the whole thing delicious. As someone who went to university in a building where the post-graduate / staff floor didn't have a female bathroom - likely because when it was built women were only expected to clean and serve tea in that space - I appreciate the artist and museum setting official legal precedent around this topic. And doing so with panache.
I appreciate you! I've admittedly never been to MONA and just picked a word from the Wikipedia intro:
MONA houses ancient, modern and contemporary art from the David Walsh collection. Noted for its central themes of sex and death, the museum has been described by Walsh as a "subversive adult Disneyland".
And I find this funny, but in the sad way ☹️
Folks trying to fight sexual discrimination with sexual discrimination... 🤦♂️
Those that dispute, fight and argue about such things that way don't even seem to realize that they're just contributing to the problem.
I just have to completely disagree. Art has consistently served to challenge the status quo and provoke thought and discussion, and this exhibit has absolutely excelled in that regard.
Now the artist is moving on to explore existing discrimination exemptions under the law in Tasmania:
In fact the Lounge already possesses many of the redeeming qualities listed in the verdict that would make it eligible for an exemption under section 27 of the Anti-Discrimination Act 1998 (Tas). Where it isn’t already eligible, a number of minor adjustments should bring us into compliance.
The law states that a person may discriminate on the ground of gender:
(a) in a religious institution, if it is required by the doctrines of the religion of the institution; or
(b) in education, if it is for the purpose of enrolment in one-gender schools or hostels; or
(c) in employment, if it is for the purpose of the residential care of persons under the age of 18 years; or
(d) in employment, if it is based on a genuine occupational qualification or requirement in relation to a particular position; or
(e) in accommodation, if it is shared accommodation for less than 5 adult persons; or
(f) in the provision or use of facilities, if those facilities are reasonably required for use by persons of one gender only.
Interviewer: You believe the artwork can continue to operate under a legal exemption? Which of these exemptions will apply?
All of them.
https://mona.net.au/blog/2024/05/interview-with-kirsha-kaechele-about-the-ladies-lounge
in a religious institution, if it is required by the doctrines of the religion of the institution
How's she planning to have this law apply? Create a woman-only sect of the FSM?
I recommend you read the interview I linked above, she goes into great detail about this and frankly it's amazing
Quoting the law doesn't make the laws right in any regard. I'm pretty sure that if you asked Picasso, if he were alive of course, that he would heavily protest the discrimination and encourage anyone mature enough to view his works.
Same typically goes for almost any artist. They didn't go through the trouble of creating the art only to end up with others saying who does or doesn't get to view it.
Matter of fact, did Picasso or any of the other artists leave a will? Or for any of the artists that might still be alive or with living descendants, do they get a word in about it?
They should.
She's not saying the law is right...
Also Picasso was a renowned chauvinist and misogynist who had affairs with teenagers as a 70 year old and put out a cigarette on the cheek of the mother of two of his children
How does everyone know my last name?
Not all Chauvins fit that stereotype. Would be nice if people would stop using my last name as a broad insult. But hell, I can't expect discriminatory people to leave my family name out of their mouth.
That would be too much like a step in the right direction.
I see you've lost the topic
Nah not really. I'm almost 42 years old and have heard my last name used as a sexist insult my whole life.
People that use that word in an insulting manner are sexist. You just used that word.
You just did a 2+2. Maybe you should try doing a 2-2, and remove that and other sexist terms from your descriptive vocabulary.
It's not an adjective, it's a family name.
The amount of people/men who don't get it is astonishing. Art isn't just something you can put on a wall. This entire thing with excluding men is an art installation, supposed to generate emotions and a discussion about exclusion and gender disparity. And seeing how many men around the world are frothing at the mouth over an installation at a small museum at the end of the world it is an extremely powerful piece of art. I applaud the museum for this.
There are still places that are men only. Women can't join the freemasons for example, but you don't see this sort of extremely angry reaction to that.
And I agree, this art piece is doing exactly what it was supposed to.
Huh. Let women into the Freemasons, I guess?
That'd be ideal, but I don't really see that happening tbh. There's a women's version of the freemasons, but it's not nearly as popular or active as far as I can tell.
Do you have any more examples other than the freemasons? I had assumed we were done with needless segregation (excluding bathrooms and such).
The only thing that makes sense in my mind is that male dominated spaces have non-explicit social barriers in place that are being approximated by the explicit barrier the museum has set up.
In the UK there's golf clubs that have pretty toxic atmospheres and dress codes but aren't legally allowed to bar women.
Sorry if this is super ignorant, I'm acknowledging the problem I just want to understand it better
I'm from the US, but here it's mostly fraternal lodges that still ban women, and certain religious groups(which I don't think those technically count due to separation of church and state). But the Order of Oddfellows, Fraternal Order of Eagles, Freemasons, and the Botherhood of St Andrew don't initiate women. Im sure theres more but i dont know about them.
Granted those have some religious influence, but aren't churches directly as far as I understand. Also the skull and bones, but they're very secretive and that could have changed and no one would be the wiser.I'm not sure about other countries laws, but in the US private institutions are more or less allowed to segregate by gender, but often there's backlash and they lose money so most won't go there. That's why it's mostly these secretive fraternal orders that still do it.
Thank you! I wasn't expecting such a long and well written response 😁
Np! Always happy to have a civil discussion! and thank you for asking your question in good faith
small museum at the end of the world
The end of the world is a fair description, but small is not. It is the largest privately funded museum in the Southern Hemisphere and has 6000m² (64583 ft²) of gallery space.
You're right, but to play devil's advocate; that's extremely unintuitive and took me to my 20s to figure out
Well, the mean age here seems to be over 30, so I'd expect a tad more maturity.
"Maturity", defined as being willing to accept explicit sex discrimination, so long as said discrimination penalizes men (as men are an acceptable target for discrimination)?
If that's still the hill you wanna die on, please.
"I was an asshole as a work of art, not because I am an asshole"
You're applauding a troll for trolling successfully?
I appreciate some good trolling that doesn't actually harm anyone. And in this case it also certainly generated discussion, so I'd say it's more than trolling anyway.
Intent matters. If all you just want is to piss off people, that's trolling. I don't see this being the point here.
That is the artist's explicitly intended point.
No, it is really not. There's an intent behind the outrage.
“The men are experiencing Ladies Lounge, their experience of rejection is the artwork,” she said.
The purpose is for men to suffer and be upset. That's what this of art is, really - human suffering for its own sake. It's quintessential trolling, which the artist has been quite open about.
Yeah, well my late father was a painter, and his number one rule was that he didn't paint stuff to be hidden away. One of his last wishes was to make sure people see his artworks.
It's up to the people that view his works as to their thoughts and opinions.
Picasso was a massive misogynist, too. I haven't any idea who Nolan is.
It didn't take me long to research into Sidney Nolan, but at the same time I do have more and more reason by the day to doubt historical facts found online... 🤷♂️
If they're gonna play that 'women only' card, then they should remove all works created by men and move them to a proper open museum.
Why?
That was a sarcastic thought meant to make people think.
What they really should do is like not discriminate. It's a museum, every person mature enough, men and women, should be welcome to go view whatever artwork and exhibits they have.