This is beautiful! I love data and I'm delighted you were inspired by my post to gather the data.
Thank you for doing this!
I'm not sure. Perhaps "Captain and Crew Test" isn't the right way to look at it either. ST:LD seems to do a good job of not focusing too much on one story or character per episode, so it avoids failure even if every character is "the captain".
There would have to be some way of reworking the criteria to evaluate overall balance (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread) rather than just Captain and Crew, I guess.
Regardless, that's a really good question. Hmmmm
I like that idea. It measures the depth/breadth of the world-building that way too.
I love this! Now you need to do an analysis like this one on Star Trek and the Bechdel-Wallace test!
TOS is already a rough rewatch with some of its acting and portrayals of the future. I can't imagine how tough it would be to rewatch it through that lens. Haha!
I realize you’re not trying to predict quality, just personal enjoyability, but I do wonder how it relates to quality.
I don't mean for this to measure quality. To each their own, as they say. After all, it is just entertainment and I'm free to watch anything else or skip this or that episode. This is all just a fun observation for me, much like a discussion on the finer points of warp theory or Federation economics.
Still, I'm glad it's something that clicked for you too. I figured there would be a number of people whose appreciation of Trek relates to this "test".
.... Even then, I believe [TOS] would have a pretty low “pass” rate compared to all the '90s series.
Agreed. I note elsewhere in this thread that I think TOS would struggle with this little "test" and it was THE Star Trek show when it all started.
(Incidentally, since Burnham wasn’t Captain until season 4, Discovery passes on a technicality for most of its run).
Indeed it would pass and I think the captains/crew of those seasons were well portrayed and balanced Burnham's presence as a character as well.
I’ve seen this complaint a lot with some of the newer shows, but it doesn’t really resonate with me. A good central character ought to be able to carry a show, and I don’t hold Trek as being inherently different in that regard.
As you say. And to be clear, I'm not taking this too seriously, nor is it meant to be a complaint. Just a measure I noticed in my own mind. I am still watching all the Star Trek made, whether it "passes" this measure or not.
A fair point. However, I just think this sums up my preferences for Trek shows well and had a feeling that many would agree.
Meanwhile, other people might have an internal measure for their preferences which amounts to "is not animated", eliminating TAS and ST:LD.
To be clear, for everyone reading: I have watched every episode of every Star Trek show; I greatly and sincerely appreciate and value the time, effort, and energy of the production crew, writers, and actors of every show. These media of entertainment are impactful and deeply meaningful. Every show has a message for its current time and future audiences and it is so important that, as a fan, I hear those messages and allow myself to appreciate this art as an audience member.
No arguments for or against these yet? I'll nudge this part of the conversation by pointing out that TOS -- THE original Star Trek show -- seems to have a high percentage of episodes which would "fail" this silly "test".
Definitely and many that fail. I wonder if it works as a measure based on percentage of the show as a whole. Then again, it really doesn't matter at all; I only noticed that I get annoyed with certain shows which overuse a single savior for the show's overall story.
I like that too. I'm not sure it would counter these "rules".
How would you propose phrasing a rule for that non-Fed criteria?
To be fair, I think every series has a lot of episodes that would fail this test, some of which were excellent, like DS9’s “In the Pale Moonlight”, and “Far Beyond the Stars” or TNG’s “The Inner Light”, but if used to assess a series, I think this could be a good metric.
Indeed, "In the Pale Moonlight" is one I thought of which fails as well. I still think it makes a good measure to see how many episodes of a show pass/fail overall. Only to see if it's really about the whole crew or mostly one character. (Arguably, early TNG comes really close to being Star Trek: Wesley while mid/late TNG comes close to Star Trek: Data.)
I agree with and second many of your statements in here. Well said! A couple specific points I want to highlight:
Paul and Hugh
I really enjoyed those plots, especially about loss.
There was also no single overarching plot, so Picard could play a flute and live the life of an alien for a whole episode without derailing any story plans. The “monster of the week” approach also helped inspire some real good moral and philosophical debate that would otherwise never would’ve been written into a single story, but also some of the most cringeworthy TV I’ve seen.
I think this is the core of the issue for what I enjoy and don't enjoy with many Star Trek shows. Surprisingly to me, Expanse does this fine whereas Trek/Who/SG-1 would trip over it and have.
In general, great reply with excellent points. Thank you!
Here's an addendum with a few great episode examples which might pass my "test".
- TOS: "Amok Time", (arguably) "The Galileo Seven"
- TNG: "Brothers", "Lower Decks", "The Measure of a Man"
- DS9: "It's Only A Paper Moon", "Improbable Cause"+"The Die Is Cast", "The Magnificent Ferengi"
Other shows also have great episodes that pass, but I want to stop here for my examples so as to avoid showing my hand (too much) and stating which show(s) I think fail.
A "test" to judge Star Trek shows
You've heard of the "Bechdel-Wallace test" and its potential value to some people in measuring various media in a given context.
I propose a measure we'll call the "Captain and Crew Test"....
I was enduring -- yes, that's the word I'll choose -- an episode of a certain Trek show and found myself thinking that I seem to enjoy Star Trek shows where the captain isn't the center of attention for the continued story, rather the crew as a whole (including the captain as professionally and relatively required) works together on the story of the day or is portrayed in multiple dimensions without the commanding officer present.
So, here's my attempt at codifying this "Captain and Crew Test":
- The episode/show has to have at least two crew members (i.e. not the captain) essential to the story,
- who interact with each other without the captain,
- about the story without specific direction from the captain
I think these "rules" could use some adjustment and addition, but I think you get what I'm proposing/suggesting/inciting.
UPDATE 2024-07-04 04:35:34 UTC: Check out the quick and amazing work by @[email protected] to compile a subset of the percentage of lines for each character in a few Star Trek shows.
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Sales:
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Edited for some conciseness
PC & CONSOLE
- Summer Event:
- The Annual Lohlunat Festival returns with all your favorite activities!
- Carry yourself to Summer with the Vovin Obelisk Carrier Ship!"
- All of the following new store offerings can be purchased using Lohlunat Favors, earned by participating in various events around the island: - Risian Terraformer Universal Kit Frame - Tactical Kit Module - Storm Strike - Science Kit Module – Static Slam - Engineering Kit Module – Electrical Overcharge - New Uniforms – The London Kings! - Sub Aqua Suits - Rainbow Mellanoid Worm
- For more information, please visit the “Return To Risa” blog.
General:
- Resolved an issue that caused some captains who bought out the 2023 Lohlunat Festival event to not be able to reclaim the Hysperian Intel Battlecruiser.
- Resolved an issue that caused some ships to not be visible when active.
- Resolved an issue with the Alliance Rex Pilot Escort that caused impulse engine visual attachments (such as the Borg or Competitive engines) to appear too large in Sector Space, or not appear at all.
- Resolved an issue within the Constitution-Class family of ships that caused usage of the Constitution Refit pylons to disallow the use of the Odyssey hull material.
- Adjusted the decals on the Duderstadt Miracle Worker Science Spearhead's saucer section such that the Starfleet insignias are no longer mirrored (the thicker side of the delta is now correctly on the left).
- Updated the Avenger Battlecruiser so that the registries that display on the sides of the hull (with the darker colored pattern) are now in white to improve visibility.
- Resolved an issue that caused certain Borg Cubes (like the Derelict Cube in the mission "Sleepers") to appear completely white.
- Fixed some gaps in the geometry of the Kirk Temporal Heavy Battlecruiser's saucer.
Known Issues:
- Currently Risan Birds can accidentally be sold to the Bird Exchange Contact even if they have 'Protection" on.
[Console] The Dyson Bundle
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I remember enjoying the Temporal Recruit storyline. I had a bit of fun with mine, naming it "Redshirt" and giving it the torn red uniform costume. Haha
From July 2nd at 8am PT to July 23rd at 12pm PT on all platforms, you can create a new Temporal Agent character.
I'm really looking forward to this one. I enjoy the look of the Obelisk Carrier. Not sure yet what I'll do with it, but it'll be a nice thing to have parked in the garage. Haha
I definitely would like more team uniforms and some other vanity options too. The pets and such are fun, but I want more costume items.
- Enjoy beach activities on Risa and earn a Vovin Obelisk Carrier (T6) from July 2nd at 8am PT to August 1st at 12pm PT.
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June 25th, 2024 at 8am PT to July 2nd, 2024 at 12pm PT on PC
Research and Development
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Duty Officers
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June 25th at 8am PT to July 2nd at 12pm PT (on PC)
- During this event, complete any Red Alert to earn Daily Progress.
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[Console] Welcome to Unparalleled!
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Patch Notes for 6/20/24 (both Console and PC)
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Console
Event – Delete Alt Control:
- This Featured Event will be a standalone event, separate from the Event Campaign. This new event will provide participating Captains with an epic reward: The Dimensional Hypermass Torpedo Launcher and The Type 14 Shuttle Support Squadron!
- For more information, please visit the “Delete Alt Control” blog.
New Content:
- New Episode – Situation Under Control
- Brand New Task Force Operation – Borg Battle Royale
General:
- The Exeter variant of the Cruiser family has been totally remastered
- Added various optimizations for the Console user interface.
PC
General:
- Resolved a number issues with the Captain Alteration Token.
- The Captain Alteration Token is now available to purchase and use.
Known Issues:
- We are aware that some captains, who recently bought out the 2023 Lohlunat Festival event, are unable to reclaim the Hysperian Intel Battlecruiser and are currently working on a fix to address this issue.
Can we give this bundle the nickname of "The Complete Toilet Bundle"? It's got the Bowl (Earth Defense Force Vessel), the Seat (Saturn Intel), and the Lid (Mars Pilot).
Even if the nickname doesn't stick, I think it'll still be a bundle I pass on. Get it? "Pass" on? Thank you! I'll be here all night!
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- 50% discount on Mudd's Sol System Defense Choice Pack and Mudd's Sol System Defense MEGA Pack Bundle from June 20th at 8am PT to July 4th at 12pm PT
Bundle Descriptions:
- Mudd's Sol System Defense Choice Pack costs 29500 Zen and allows you to choose any three of the following options:
- United Earth Defense Force Vessel [T6]
- Mars Pilot Escort [T6]
- Saturn Intel Science Spearhead [T6]
- [2x Pack] T6 Ship Coupons
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- [16x] Bridge Officer Upgrade Tokens
- 10x Ultimate Tech Upgrades
- Mudd's Sol System Defense MEGA Pack Bundle costs 60000 Zen and includes all items listed above.
Additional Sales:
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June 20th at 8am PT to June 27th at 12pm PT
- Bonus rewards for all Admiralty missions:
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[Console] 20% Zen Sale
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>Zen at 20% off from June 19th to July 3rd
I just watched a CasualSAB mentioning that and came here to edit. Think I should just delete the post?
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June 13th, 2024 at 8am PT to June 17th, 2024 at 12pm PT (PC only)
- All ships in the C-Store 20% off
- Including dry dock slots, ship upgrade token, ship upgrade token bundle, and the fleet module
- Bundles containing only ships are discounted
- Bundles containing other items are not discounted
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>Note: This patch was reverted after release, due to the game crashing when players attempted to access the TFO menu.
Copy-paste
General:
- Resolved a number issues with the Captain Alteration Token.
- The Captain Alteration Token is now available to purchase and use.
Known Issues:
- We are aware that some captains, who recently bought out the 2023 Lohlunat Festival event, are unable to reclaim the Hysperian Intel Battlecruiser and are currently working on a fix to address this issue.
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June 6th at 8am PT - June 8th at 10am PT
- The Star Trek Online Lifetime Subscription will be 50% off on all platforms!
June 8th at 10am PT to July 11th at 12pm PT
- The subscriptions will still be on sale, bringing the price down by $100 to $199.99 on PC, and discounting the Subscription by 33% on Console!
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- This includes the returning 10 Ship Legendary Bundle.
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Copy-paste
General:
- Resolved an issue that prevented the daily event timer from being visible for the “Delete Alt Control” event. This was just a visual issue and the daily event timer was functioning normally.
Known Issues:
- We are still working on issues with the Captain Alteration Token and as such, we have temporarily disabled the ability to purchase or use a Captain Alteration Token. We will return the feature when we have a satisfactory fix for the issues.
[Console] Phoenix Prize Pack Event
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(Xbox and Playstation) June 6th, 2024 at 8:00 AM PT to June 13th, 2024 at 12:00 PM PT
- Free daily Phoenix Prize Pack: Available from Grym on Drozana Station or Onna on Deep Space Nine.
- Phoenix Prize Pack contains: Weapons, items, and ships
- Experimental Ship Upgrade tokens: Available during the event by exchanging Phoenix Prize Pack tokens.
[Console] New Items in Mudd's Market!
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Available starting this Thursday:
- Mudd's Market is adding new items to Mudd's Market for Xbox and PlayStation:
- Four Piece Imperial Assault Ground Set
- Console – Universal – Crystal Prism
- Synth Android (A600 series) Combat Pet
June 6th at 8am PT to June 10th at 12pm PT
- Everything in the Mudd Store except bundles will be 75% off.
[Console] Admiralty Bonus Event
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- June 4th, 2024 at 8am PT to June 18th, 2024 at 12pm PT (for Xbox and PlayStation)
- Double Campaign XP on all Admiralty assignments
- Bonus Dilithium Ore on all Tour of Duty missions