"observing changes the result" doesn't mean conciousness attempting to look at it changes the result, there is nothing special about conciousness (in quantum mechanics)
"observing changes the result" means we try to measure atoms and fields but unfortunately our measurement tools are also made out of atoms and fields which interact with the atoms and fields we are trying to measure, giving us a different result than if we don't attempt to measure it
It does bring up interesting questions about what the "real" behavior of reality is tho, since anything we observe is technically different than what it would be if left alone. We can only ever know what a slightly altered state of reality is
Think of it like this:
You can use a tennis ball machine to measure how far away a house is by firing the tennis ball at a constant velocity, timing how long it takes the tennis ball to come back to you, multiplying that time by the velocity, and dividing by 2 (since you measured the distance for a round trip). This works pretty darn well for measuring the distance to houses.
But now try this same trick to measure the distance to another ball. When your measuring ball hits the ball you want to measure, it doesn't stay resolutely planted in the ground like that nice friendly house. The energy from your measuring ball bounces the ball being measured off into the distance. Even if you could get your measuring ball to return, the ball you measured isn't in the place you measured it.
Replace that tennis ball with a photon, and you have the basic picture. There's no such thing as passive observation. Measuring something interacts with that thing. Conventional measurement is like in the case with the house, the thing being measured is so much bigger and more stable than the thing we're measuring with that the effect is negligible. But once you start trying to measure something on the same scale as your measuring tool, the ensuing chaos makes it basically impossible to get useful measurements.
Every road leads to Plato's cave
My teacher had a good comparison for this: observing macroscoping reality like we do microscopic reality would be like throwing a car at another car to measure its speed or position. Obviously you alter the course of events this way.
Fortunately light doesn't do much in the macroscopic world, so we can use it to observe stuff.
Great distinction.
This always bugs me. Quantum Mechanics isn't actually that difficult. It has some nasty maths, yes, but that's mostly slog work, rather than an impossibility. 90% of it is the Schroedinger's equation + boundary conditions.
The main issue is that you have to abandon the particle model of reality. This is deeply engrained into our brains. If you try and understand it as "Particles + extras", you will fail. You have to think of it as "Waves + extras". It then, suddenly makes logical sense.
It does have some interesting implications, however, about deeper reality however. E.g. what exactly IS decoherence, from a physical point of view. Also, what is physically happening, dimensionally, when a wave is complex, or even pure imaginary. These are beyond the scope of QM however.
The big problem isn't that the math is hard, or that's often impossible to visualise. The problem is that a whole bunch of charlatans intentionally misinterpret what "observing" is in QM, to make money off of gullible victims.
To elaborate on this, the Schrödinger equation, which describes the dynamics of a single particle, is a wave equation and hence a lot of classical intuition from e.g. electrodynamics can be applied. It is many-body systems, i.e. systems composed of many interacting particles, which is not only mathematically complex but can also defy classical expectations due to emerging phenomena, etc.
The problem of quantum mechanic is that the physics it shows us is not intuitive, and it sometimes breaks other laws of physics.
Quantum intrication means that information travels faster than light for example. Counterfactuality also breaks causality.
It's not the maths that are the problem, it's that it doesn't make physical sense in the world we currently understand. And the equations explain nothing. They merely describe a a world that doesn't make sense.
Quantum mechanic is like having a machine from the future that does cool things, but you don't understand how it works. It's like people did chemistry before they understand what chemistry was. We do uber cool things with it, but it is a spotlight on our ignorance at the same time.
Actually, I think it's time to reveal, that to some people QM is actually pretty intuitive.
It's just that the masses and the news media don't understand it, so they assume that nobody does. The particle worldview is deeply ingrained into many people's brains, because it's deeply useful to them on a day-to-day basis. If you loosen that requirement, then there's literally nothing standing in your way to accept a wave-worldview.
I definitely agree it's unintuitive to the layman. We never have to deal with large scale wave interactions, on the classical physics level. I disagree, however, that we can't understand it. It does make sense, it just doesn't map to our default particle mindset.
I disagree that it breaks the laws of physics though. It just shows some flaws in our methodology. E.g. the speed of light isn't a limit on fundamental speed, but of information. It just happens that the only time we can have transmission without information is via decoherence.
QM is definitely incomplete. We know the what, but not the why. That applies to most of physics however. Newtonian physics is the same. We know what happens, but not why. It's just that Newtonian physics is intuitive to our savannah running brain, while QM requires more mental work.
I mean, consciousness does alter the universe.
Here I am, altering the universe because of my consciousness.
If you mean that we make cities and culture and science with our minds, then yes.
If you mean we control reality by squeezing our butt cheeks real hard and wishing for parking spaces, then no.
Most of the time I hear this, it's stupid people promoting the second.
I believe the more nuanced argument is that even though you think you have free will and are making choices such as "let's build a hospital" or "I will write a song", due to the nature of all effects needing causes, in a chain - there is no such thing as free will as there is no cause without effect.
That second one... Isn't that manifestation? Hard agree with you there, usually people promoting manifestation are simultaneously saying "you can imagine anything and make it real" and in the same breath are trying to sell you something that you evidently aren't able to imagine into your reality for free.
On the other side, technically, even breathing is enough to satisfy the goal of "changing the universe". That bunch of molecules would not be moving through the universe like that if it weren't for your consciousness (but few appreciate sentience at that atomic of a mechanical level lol. I just think it's a massive glazed over step in going from mind to city/culture/science)
Sean Carroll had a great take: everything is waves in fields and we know of five fields: Strong Weak Electric Gravity Higgs
Particle behavior arises from interacting waves. So anything that acts like a particle is actually waves interfering with each other.
God doesn't play dice, he surfs, got it.
Consciousness has nothing to do with the "observations" in quantum mechanics. The wave function collapses when we entangle ourselves with the outcome. Whether or not we actually record those "observations" is irrelevant.
The term they should have used from the get-go is "measurement" instead of "observation". Humans will always tack on mystical mumbo jumbo if given a chance, muddying up the waters for us laymen trying to learn, and "measurement" sounds much more neutral to me.
Having to explain to your parent that yes physics requires math and that yes being a physicist is a job that requires years of dedication to fully appreciate is wild. Also, physicists are just bad at naming things, so no your brain doesn't change reality around it because it has eye holes attached to it
Everybody knows you need to fall off your toilet and hit your head on the sink for instant flux capacitor.
Continental philosophy in a nutshell. Find some cool sciencey concept, and abstract it beyond anything that is reasonable.
What would oceanic philosophy be then? Dilute everything?
Continental philosophy is so named because the Brits referred to the philosophers in continental Europe thus. The opposing school is more generally known as analytical philosophy, and posits that rigorous logic can be applied to philosophy.
Continental philosophy: "love should be a dimension, just like time, that would be awesome."
Analytical philosophy: "I'll buy you a beer if you can prove to me that the electron exists."
We have the many-worlds interpretation that makes perfect sense (as long as you accept that consciousness is just a function of the particles in your brain and not some spiritual essence detached from the laws of physics), but Niels Bohr had to convince everyone that Quantum Mechanics is not supposed to make any sense just so that he could win his argument against Albert Einstein, so now everyone think it's just another interpretation on equal footing with the Copenhagen nonsense.
I believe once we fully understand consciousness, we'll understand the nature of reality. Of course, I could be wrong.
That's an interesting idea.
Let me try. It's all a loop. Each universe is just another conscious being's thoughts manifesting themselves into what you see before you. In your head there is one just like what you see around you.
Very interesting. I'm in the party of both ways. Either way I see it, if I die and am simply gone forever, that's cool. Atleast I won't know any better, like before we were born. Alternatively, if we take reincarnation as truth, then shit, that's extremely interesting and opens so many doors my feeble mind cannot comprehend. Really, either way I'm completely cool with. I'm just simply amazed that we are here and now, regardless.
It always worked out in Alpha Centauri. Boom two free techs. gg
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone understands exactly what consciousness is for and why we have one, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
I hope that's not true. Just a constant horse and carrot.
I wouldn't call it weird, just unconventional.
Have you seen the movies? The only sane person who messed with quantum stuff is the camera man, and he never speaks of anything.
I wish conciousness had a role in it, because that would imply we had some kind of essence that effected the universe, something we could call a soul
If only conciousness did affect reality, it would salvage the soul, which sadly doesn't appear to exist - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8121175/
all i know about quantum physics is that its what killes black dwarfs
