[Discussion] Should we defederate exploding-heads.com? (Closing arguments)
[Discussion] Should we defederate exploding-heads.com? (Closing arguments)
Exploding-heads.com is another instance on Lemmy where alt-right MAGA types tend to reside. Some people on this server want us to defederate from them immediately, some people want to save defederation as a last resort. They have 104 active users (more stats below).
It seems that exploding-heads has also experienced a recent botswarm invasion. This is obviously another point in favor of defederating them, assuming you are worried about botswarms, which is currently being discussed here.
My advice to you all is please try to discuss this in a civil manner, we need not allow them to create divisive conflict inside our communities. No matter how the vote turns out, you're not going to be able to defederate from your fellow sh.itheads so be nice.
I've linked many of the previous discussions below so people who are out of the loop can get a general sense of the situation.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/216888 https://sh.itjust.works/post/225714 https://sh.itjust.works/post/281126 https://sh.itjust.works/post/410325
Lemmy.world just recently defederated them.
https://lemmy.world/post/747912
https://lemmy.world/post/577526
Although this could be considered a point in favor of defederation, it actually means even if we vote to remain federated, people have a great alternative in lemmy.world where they can still participate in our communities and simultaneously be protected from exploding-heads.
Ensuring diversity of servers is beneficial to the platform as a whole, but it is also not our responsibility to bear that burden.
TLDR, just wrap up any last points in this thread before we open the vote tomorrow. Please be civil.
EDIT: To clarify, this isn't the official vote, this is the final discussion. The vote thread will be posted tomorrow and you will only be allowed to make a single comment saying Aye or Nay.
EDIT2: Vote thread is up, this thread is now locked. Very lively discussion thread sh.itheads. Please try to be more respectful next time.
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In a Mastodon instance there is unidirectional communication. I can mute someone. That seems like a function that would be useful here. Is there a way to mute their instance (nothing inbound from them to my server) but they can receive from me? Why would I ask this? The minute I treat someone as though they are irredeemable, there is no reason for them to try to achieve redemption. If what we do here, all of us, is honorable, they’ll be able to see that. To some degree this can cause… Let’s call it dissension in the ranks.
We block their noise inbound to our servers, yes. But let them see the difference between what their pundits tell them, and what actually is.
Or, I may be completely wrong. I’ve been labeled an edgelord for having this position.
That is not a feature available in either Lemmy or KBin yet. The primary directive, if you ask me, of online community building is you must not allow your users to come to mental harm. It would be nice to keep exploding-heads from becoming a nazi echo chamber by having realistic content appearing in their feed, but we shouldn't let that stop us from preventing their continued abuse of our rules
The concern I have, is that the nuclear option doesn’t solve the problem. It just kicks the can down the road. Sure users at this moment in this context may not be coming to mental harm, but that’s pretty constrained. We end up in cyber warfare where eventually they decide to DoS systems and bot farm. I agree there is no reason to allow them to abuse us. I’m just of the opinion that the greater good is not served by creating two fediverses… I accept that people want to defederate. I’m not trying to stop that. I just think there are unintended consequences attached to that action.
It just kicks the can down the road
Disagreed. In fact it's the opposite, it will lead to an overall healthier fediverse.
Because defederation kneecaps their abilty to recruit from & propagandize the the masses.
Additionally, actions like this typically cause a decline in those extremist spaces for various social and psychological reasons.
I would think this would only be true if only the fediverse existed. But what you would essentially be doing is encouraging them to create a separate fediverse that is ignored. They can still recruit in other ways. Do you think the proud boys and the oath keepers came in to existence because of the fediverse? How did they recruit? All they have to do is set up their own instances of social media replacements, right? I’d sure like to see the studies that support your claim that actions like these on the internet cause the decline you’re talking about. You may be right, I’d sure like to have access to the information you’re using to be so sure about this.
It was brought up in the GitHub but it never got any traction #3255
Fair enough I guess. Sounds like the only option people want is defederaton.
Is there a way to mute their instance (nothing inbound from them to my server) but they can receive from me?
Yes, in a very specifiic way. Assume A defederated B, but B is still federated with A. C is federated with both, and both are federated with C.
When users from A post or comment in communities hosted on C, that is visible to users from B. When B users reply to A users, A users won't see it.
No that's actually a really good point worth considering.
Thank you. I hope smarter people than I come up with an adequate solution.
There is also this suggestion which just needs someone to tackle it and it will get accepted: Allow a user to block an instance #2397. That could be combined with an admin function to opt-out an instance by default.