Could child labor ever be acceptable if it's done consentually?
While child labor is viewed negatively, apparently child labor and child slavery aren't the same thing, and child labor though it could still be exploitative/cruel in other ways, can be done voluntarily by the child, and with fair treatment/compensation/etc.
I suppose you could make the argument that any child labor opens itself up to problems, but could it be done responsibly?
And if not, then at what age do we draw the line of labor being not ok regardless of consent?
Nope. Children are not able to provide informed consent and thus cannot enter into contracts to sell their labor. Beyond that, there is a wealth of data demonstrating negative outcomes related to child labor, including educational underperformance, increased incidence of poverty, abuse, and crime, as well as the potential of workplace injuries to cause permanent developmental impairment.
I tend to agree, but what about making a child do chores in a family household? Most children don't want to do it and some don't get anything in return, the tasks can sometimes be grueling. Would that always be unethical, or only when taken to an excessive degree that severely impacts the child?
This is likely related to why kids can work in a family owned business to various extents. At least in the US. Not sure about elsewhere.
The problem is that once you make it available for anybody, it becomes a societal pressure and children won't be given a choice since they can't make their own decisions for what they do. Hell, how many of us were 'forced' to get a summer job as a teenager by our parents?
It isn't commercial labor when an adult does their own chores (I think), as it's more related to the people in a household maintaining their own home. It likely wouldn't be labor for a child for the same reasons, though I'm not sure.
But it could start to look like labor when it's something that produces commercial value, for example, it's more like a 'chore' to water the vegetable garden in the backyard, but it's more like 'labor' to tend to 20 acres of farmland.
Excessive chores, though, could be prevented under child abuse law rather than child labor law, depending on how it's enforced. Doing all the household work voluntarily for no reason other than it's fun? Almost certainly legal. No video games until you clean the dishes? Probably legal. No food until you sweep, mop, dust, and shine every surface in the house? Probably abuse.
Chores are largely part of childhood education. Humans need to be able to do things that they may not find fun to both to survive as functional adults and function as a part of society. They also help to teach responsibility and contribution to larger things than themselves, whether a family unit or society at large.
What age is that? Unless they're really young, isn't that somewhat denying their ability to make their own decisions? What if they truly want to work and make money or get experience at a younger age?
isn’t that somewhat denying their ability to make their own decisions?
Somewhat, yes, and that's by design.
Kids under a certain age should not be held responsible for making all of their own life decisions.
When kids grow up, if their parents doesn't suck, they get succesively more agency and responsibility, not making all of your own decisions is just part of being a kid.
I mean this with all due respect, but are you under the age of 21? Your posts sound a lot like my opinions when I was younger.
I grew up thinking a lot of the rules surrounding childhood consent were dumb—I considered myself intelligent and mentally complete, so I figured the rules existed for some other type of kid. Then I got to 25 and realized that I had profoundly evolved mentally over the previous decade, and finally realized what adults had been saying all those years ago. I have had another one of those revelations recently, and it has been about another 10 years.
I realize now that my confidence as a teenager was primarily an expression of immaturity and inexperience. Yes, school sucks, but work does too. There is no magic freedom with adulthood, there is responsibility. Expanded choices also bring expanded consequences, and failure is most definitely possible.
If I could do it all again, I would enjoy those younger years for what they are, and not try to move too fast. You’ll have plenty of long decades as an adult to decide how you feel about it. My guess is that you’ll feel differently than you do now.
Doing jobs / working as a kid is perfectly alright if it contributes to their education, teaches them skills for life or helps them learn how to become an independent individual. But within limits. They also need time to grow, have fun and go to school.
Other than that, children will consensually work if the alternative is seeing their little sister starve. Help contribute to the family income or happily skip school if able. Under a certain age, children are regarded as not very wise, unable to consent and easily manipulable. For example by cruel or stupid parents.
That is why it needs to be banned to a certain (and arguable) age. Instead, the state/society needs to provide for poor children, and protect them. Sometimes even from their parents and themselves. Until they're grown enough to make their own decisions.
Adults paid minimum wage without other sources of income are poor. What you’re implying is a system that pays children a living wage that is above the current minimum wage. What employer is going to pay someone more than minimum when they are a child who will have major limitations and liabilities as an employee, and when they could potentially pay a full grown adult to do more work with less liability for less pay?
The only reality where that happens is when it is a job that a child can do more easily than a full sized adult, and that is exactly the kind of work that made child labor illegal in the first place—those little hands can sure reach deep into those factory machines, can’t they?
If these protections work 100% and the kids are for sure not being manipulated and it doesn't take away from their education... And we're sure they don't 'not know better'. I'm not sure if we'd need that ban.
Let's say you're Harry Potter. Or Hermione Granger and you're 11 yo and you have people to make sure you don't suffer from working. I'm okay with that. And I think they got paid more than minimum wage. I didn't watch the documentary so I don't know if it worked out alright for them. But starring in movies reportedly is hard work.
We can't even trust employers to not steal wages, sexually harass, or be decent humans to adult workers. There's no way a literal child should be expected to hold their own in an employee/employer relationship.
Consent aside, it will never be acceptable in a place where there's free education, since educating a child is almost guaranteed to increase their quality of life and production in society
What if they worked outside of school hours/while still maintaining their education?
Depending on the job, it could help start their career and benefit them that way as well.
Consentually...... Sounds like a great way for a corporation to groom individuals into people who accept less than a liveable wage.
I don't see anything that helps capitalism being done "responsibly". It's all done in the pursuit of all the money, and as soon as possible. Only rule is don't break laws that have consequences higher than the profits gained.
Children should be children. They shouldn't need to earn an income. Education and fun should be a priority. Have the rest of their lives to be miserable
Yes, when it's the product of apprenticeship, where there is a clear gain, without loss in other areas of education. As to the amount of time it takes from childhood, the matter is less clear, as it is within societies that permit cram schools. But if you allow one, then you can allow the other.
I was wondering if the cobalt mined for smartphones could be done ethically, even if they still needed to use children for it. What if the children clearly consent to working and are treated well in good conditions and paid fairly?
Well, that doesn't work for sexual consent, and I guess it would be similar regarding this issue. Informed consent requires the person to be of such an age that their consent is valid. I'm no expert, that was just my initial thought.
kids should not work nor "have to" work. they should have fun, get educated and well... be kids. they have more than 40 years down the road to suffer in a cubicle