You're viewing a single thread.
Tens of millions of people voted for the Democrats. Do they not get to complain?
you are absolutely welcome to complain, however i would advise you to complain about actual real issues, rather than "black hole issues" like "The DNC didn't personally target me and now i feel left out" because let's be honest, nobody fucking cares. We have problems to be solving, not shit to be moping over.
Can I complain about the fact that the Biden/Harris admin prioritized continuing a genocide over beating Trump?
You could have if Trump was going to actually end the genocide instead of explicitly saying he was going to make it even worse.
No.
I think if you voted for Democrats you get to complain, but if you were eligible to vote and didn't have to jump through a ton of hoops to do so you don't get to complain. This could have been avoided.
edit: to be clear, I don't think Democratic leadership really cares that we've got a dictator. But voting for them was harm reduction and too many people couldn't be bothered, whatever the reason.
Why do people pretend that each election is in isolation? That if somehow we had all just voted for Harris even harder that America wasn't headed down this path anyway. This shit has been a plan of American politics since Ronald Reagan.
I'm not an "accelerationist" by any means. But it's just silly to act like this is a problem with voter turnout and only if we had "voted harder" it would all be fine. No. The entire system is fundamentally broken. That's how we got here.
I don't claim this election was in isolation but I agree with everything else you've said. We need people to vote for the harm reduction, and we need people to organize because our system of government is trash. Biden being in office gave us four years to organize with the usual amount of opposition instead of the federal government being ordered to go after anyone the fascists don't like; his response to the Gaza camps last year was fucked up but if/when something like that happens again, Trump's gonna have the military kill people.
I think this was inevitable too, it would have taken the people at the top choosing to fight fascism like the threat it is and I didn't/don't see that happening. I voted for Harris because it gives us breathing room, and if Trump doesn't survive the next four years it would be harder for the fascist movement to retain its power if they didn't have complete control of the government. At the same time I've been involved in activism for the last few years, because we need people to do both.
And over one third of voters didn't vote for anyone. This is talking about them:
https://www.environmentalvoter.org/updates/2024-was-landslidefor-did-not-vote
The people complaining hardest are the ones who called democrats genocidal fascists and refused to vote. This site was filled to the brim with anty Democrat posts at election time, now it’s filled with “why aren’t they doing anything??” Posts, it’s the same people
TBF I voted extra hard for Harris and I'm still wondering why Democrats are voting yes on Trumps cabinet picks and why an 83 year old Bernie Sanders is out drumming up the masses while Hakeem Jefferies tells Jon Stewart that we're all too stupid to know how amazing Democrats are.
ALSO, Democrats don't seem to give a shit about the genocide, including you. So IDK what the fuck you expect me to say. I voted for harm reduction because I knew exactly what Trump was going to do, but that doesn't mean I gave up all of my rights to complain about the shit job that Democrats do.
You need to understand that American non-voters are unironically fucking stupid. They heard you complaining about Democrats and that just reinforced their decision to not vote for anyone.
Its simple cause and effect.
Wait, so it's up to me to sweep all of the bullshit under the rug so we can trick people into voting for the lesser evil instead of the Democrats being responsible for giving the people what they want and need?
Wtf
I'm not saying that. I'm describing cause and effect.
You need to ask yourself what is more important, consequences or virtue? Because sometimes you don't get both.
What's more important to me is that we demand better from our elected officials and stop accepting "at least it's not the very worst" as acceptable.
You can Susan Collins at me all day but you're never going to convince me to go out and cheer on "could be worse, bro". I KNOW it could be worse and that's why I vote against republicans but I'm going to demand the people I vote for DO BETTER.
Our officials mostly lost this election. And might not even have a chance to run again.
Demanding better can be phrased in a way as to not encourage people to abstain form voting them in.
Its doesn't really matter anymore.
Maybe the Democrats should prove the complainers wrong. The Democratic leadership has had plenty of opportunity to build trust amongst the voters, and decided to ignore them instead. They've spent years letting their voters down, which is why they aren't trusted.
"Why should we prove the complainers and voters wrong? We should stick to the guns that made people sick of us in 2016, 2020, and 2024! Nothing will fundamentally change, and that's final!"
And they wonder why people are sick of neoliberalism and willing to listen to a lying fascist saying he'd change something, just not for the better of anyone but the 1%.
I agree.
We still should have prevented Trump from winning by more people voting Democrat.
And then what? Get 4 more years of a genocidal Cop in the white house further normalizing "tough on the border" policies and genocidal foreign policy. And then follow it up with another Republican with even more of a "mandate" to murder immigrants and bomb brown kids? America has been a dictatorship of the capitalist class since it's founding. Voting for president is like voting for a temporary court jester. It doesn't change who runs this country. It only changes which interest of the ruling class are served.
What has the Democrats offered in the face of growing inequality and increasing power of corporations?
They probably told people, however media and the people where busy watching the Trump freak show, and listening to all the lies about of how bad the Democrats are.
How naive of you.
That is irrelevant. You don't seem to understand the point I'm making. I'm saying the average American hears critiques and only process them at surface level and forms a black and white evaluation on that basis. This is incredibly fucking stupid.
And knowing that there are so many American's like this: it is legitimately going to make fewer Americans vote to prevent the fascist from taking power (and did!) because they'll feel like they're aligning with the "bad guys" if you critique Democrats in public without a load of additional context (that some wont even absorb anyway if you provided it).
Why is your criticism so heavily directed at voters? Voting for who you want is a fundamental part of democracy. You are spending so much energy criticizing voters but I haven't seen an ounce of criticism for the actual party leadership. It is literally the job of the party leaders to create a platform that aligns with its voting base. They literally turned their back on their base in order to try to appeal to Trump voters with anti immigration policies. THEY HAD ADS TALKING ABOUT BUILDING THE WALL. Do you think MAYBE that has something to do with why the Democrats failed to get voters out to the polls?
I hate the democratic leadership as well. I can hate two groups at the same time. But I primarily hate them for losing to fascists and not taking the threat seriously. Much like I hate the non-voters for basically the same fucking reason.
The democrats thought that appealing to moderate republicans and centrists would siphon votes from Trump. This was obviously a stupid idea and I cringed as they did so and hoped that it wouldn't hurt them too bad in the polls. It obviously fucking did.
The thing is, they more or less admitted so at this point that their strategy was dumb as fuck and that Sanders was right all along.
There are still people who did not vote who are accelerationists, "apolitical", or think "democrats and republicans are identical" and my spite and hatred of those people is so incredibly intense. I hope they get exactly what they did not vote against. I resent that I've put effort where they choose not to and now expect me to continue fucking fighting after they let the difficulty level explode and likely doom the planet to a scorching hellscape.
Why should people vote for a party that do not even want to resolve the most pressing issues that affect their daily lives?
To prevent fascists from taking power.
To prevent fascists from taking over, we should elect corpos who will constantly push us on a rightward trajectory towards fascism.
Instead, we should sprint full speed into fascism. That'll show the fascists!
And what are the Democrats doing to prevent that? Offer Medicare for all? Increase federal wage? Increase taxes on the rich? Offer free college? Build social housing?
"People who are hungry, people who are out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made."- Franklin Roosevelt
"The masses" do not think like this. They don't even know what that word means except in a passing negative emotional reaction.
I feel like your missing that many people do see the Democrats as the bad guys, and I can't say that I blame them. We recently asked them to say "Genocide is bad, and we won't support it" and they wouldn't. They are the baddies
I feel like your missing that many people do see the Democrats as the bad guys
No I'm not. I literally said that they would. And I hold that such a black and white surface level evaluation of the situation and to then choose not to vote is aggressively fucking stupid.
And TBH, I don't want to help stupid people if they're going to keep dragging me into the mud. I've worried about politics for most of my life and worked to make things better for other people but this election has freed me to focus on helping mostly just myself and a few close people that align with me. Most other people are hopeless. I'm done swimming up a waterfall.