Defederation with Instances that Allow Loli and Shota

Personally, I joined this instance because it hadn't defederated anything. It leaves the power to us, the users, to decide what we do or don't want to see, rather than an admin. Defederating goes against the principle of free speech, as loli/shota content, while most find it distasteful, is not illegal, at least in the US, and so it is up to the user if they want to see it or not. I'm aware that "free speech" is a loaded phrase nowadays, but it is a principle I personally believe in quite heavily. The users can decide what they want to see or not. I believe defederation should only be used for explicitly illegal content.

There are some things that are just so abhorrent that only absolute zero tolerance is an acceptable position.

Pedophilia is one of those things. Ban it all.

ESPECIALLY considering the massive amount of spillover between "lolicons" and fascists.

I agree that this kind of content is disgusting. So the policy should be that it’s not allowed on this instance. It’s perfectly reasonable for you to not want this content directly on your server.

But, I don’t agree with defederation. I joined a general instance to be able to go wherever I want. It should be left up to me what content I don’t wish to see and simply block those communities myself. If you start deciding for me what I’m allowed to see or not see then I’ll leave to a different instance. Today it’s the obvious “no loli or child porn or w\e” and everyone hops on board because it’s easy to just not be a pedophile. But that opens the door to defederation in general. Tomorrow it could be something else.

Do what you will but make sure to state it publicly so I can know whether or not I should bother sticking around with this instance.

I'm against defederation in general. The thing I like most about this place is that we, the users, decide what to see and not to see. When I see stuff like that creeping up my feed I'll just block the specific community and be done with it. Defederating a whole instance won't just remove access to negative communities, but also to positive ones that may be on the same instance.

Others may disagree and I don't know about the legal side of these things, though.

Loli and Shota is pedophilia and disgusting. It should not be allowed on any platform whatsoever. It is a definite ban. Not only is it morally abhorrent, but not banning it may even be criminal.

I'm a brand new refugee fleeing reddit for the federation, and ended up on this server purely by the luck of the draw. So I don't know anyone here, or anything about any of you yet. And that's OK. It's nice to meet new people.

I do have my list of topics I'm OK with, and topics I'm not. I never want to see abuse depicted, whether real, simulated, AI generated, or hand drawn. That means no loli, no fascists, no gangsters. And I'm not particularly interested in being a part of a community that tolerates those topics, even under the guise of free speech. It's not that you're bad for wanting to discuss it, I just personally want no part of it ever.

If they aren't cut off at the source, that means I'll have to spend time hunting them down and blocking them. Ideally I don't want to have to do that even once, let alone on a regular basis.

One other thing to consider is the health of the admins. If the bad apples aren't defederated, the mods may also have to deal with that content on a more frequent basis. I'd rather they not have to spend their limited time and mental health on them either.

So they aren't defederated here, then I'll want to quietly move to a different server now, one where they aren't tolerated. I want to spend as little time possible being exposed to them.

I totally understand where people are coming from talking about freedom of speech, believe me, in my country that is non-existent, so I value it highly. At the same time, freedom of speech has its limits, what are those limits? It's hard to tell.

But this is going to be one of those things that define the whole atmosphere of this community.

Are those communities being helpful or entertaining in any positive manner? I personally don't think so.

Are they a gathering place for content/people that wouldn't benefit our community? I personally think so.

So, whatever it's decided is not going to be entirely right or wrong, but it will be a step in fostering an identity.

If someone new comes in, and is checking all kinds of communities, seeing that kind of thing might turn them away; on the other hand, by knowing that type of content is welcomed, other kind of people might be inclined to join.

That's my two cents on the matter, I'd personally cut all ties with that, being something with no clear benefits and some potential dangers.

I'm in favor of defederating as well. I'm a very hardcore free speech/expression advocate, but this is where my line is personally.

Being connected with those communities invites problems on multiple levels, from being exposed to those things without inviting it, all the way to possible legality concerns depending on the content they share.

It also is a huge reputational risk for instances that are willingly federated to instances that allow that content. I can already imagine news stories about communities that host that content and all the other ones that chose to stay federated with them.

The Fediverse already has enough trouble seeming approachable from a technical perspective and Lemmy itself has somewhat of a stigma about hosting extremists like tankies. I don't think we need to do things to potentially add to reasons why people wouldn't want to join up.

Those instances are still legal depending on where they are hosted and still accessible for the few people that want to access that, nasty as I think it is. We don't need to help others have access to that kind of content.

By defederating with them, we might offend an extremely small minority of users, but by staying federated, we will alienate a massive majority of users. The benefits vastly outweigh the risks IMO.

I joined this instance because I don't have the need of someone else controlling the content I see. But, in cases like these (distasteful stuff like shota, loli), I have no strong opinion, and I can also move on if I ever think the "defederation" has gone too far.

I personally support the defederation of communities that allow that type of pornography, especially the types that advertise themselves for it. Beyond not liking it when animated CSAM appears in my feed when I sort by new, I think that communities built around those types of porn invite multiple forms of toxicity that can rot away an instance from the inside. While I think defederation should be used sparingly, I still think it's a useful tool to remove bad elements from our community and in this case, I think its use would be appropriate.

New to lemmy and vlemmy so I don't yet understands the implications and possibilities around defederating, blocking, filtering? etc. Personally I hope to never get anything like that in my feed, even if I were a moderator. I'm here to learn if there is (or will be) viable non-proprietary alternatives to the current locked in platforms. I'd like to find places that I honestly recommend people to try out instead of what they use today.

I won't pretend I'm knowledable enough to debate the pros and cons of defederating in the fediverse. I've just been blocking communities centered on topics that I don't want to see, including the ones you're talking about. I've been on the internet since the early days though, so a drawing before I can block the communities in question isn't going to scar me.

Disagree with it, let people block what they want to block themselves.

One of the few cases were id agree that an instance should be defederated tbh

Personally I'm in favor of defederating if we all agreed to it because I don't see myself ever interacting with the content. There's more than a few comments in here bringing up freedom of speech and user autonomy which are fair points. I think if we can't come to an agreement on defederating, then instead we should take [email protected]'s suggestion and post a "self-moderation" wiki so that users are aware of their options and have the knowledge to control what they see in their feeds.

Call me an outlier, but I want a wild west mindset here or else I will leave. Not saying I support this content, I just hate how over moderated reddit was and I want curation to be decided by the individual.

What's next? Blocking piracy communities? I like piracy

My personal opinion about those things, including paedophilia, is that those are illegal in almost every country that I can imagine, and not only therefore shouldn't be tolerated under any circumstances. I don't even see a reason for discussing if illegal things should be banned from a community or not.

Are there any major instances that allow that, specifically ones that are on the join-lemmy ? It's a good idea to block that content but I am wondering if we'll also lose so many great communities by trying to get rid of one community. If the content there is flagged and blurred then users can block it without having to deal with it. Lemmy is still growing, so premature defederation might hurt its growth.

I'm new here (literally got approved 6 minutes ago) and as a culture creator my opinion might be skewed but:

Much of the point of loli and shota is that as a design model it's a "in the eyes of the beholder" thing. It is, basically, characters who are made to look "like children" despite their age, but this "like" is much of the problem, where (when) does exactly a "child" end? Whose definition are we using? How does it account for values dissonance for art that was made years, maybe decades ago? Trying to go into a blocking stance with hard lines that are too tightly defined only really benefits christofascists, antis and that "ilk".

It's the same problem that happens with antis and purist that are all yell about "nudes" and "female presenting nipples" yet they conveniently do gymnastics around the fact that the female body is natural and present in art since the Greek and Roman times thosr christofascists "cherish" so much. Ultimately it harms people who discuss culture and creation more than it hurts any sort of would-be purist.

There's another factor that there's a difference between a character being a loli / shota which is a matter of art/design and it is ultimately one facet of afictional character, versus a show or a work being loli / shota, which involves not only the characters but the narrative elements and the plot going about so it's a wider gamut of "things that can go wrong". My limited understanding is the latter is pr0n but the former isn't, but I'm open to being mistaken.

All in all from that perspective, I'd be Fine But Careful about defederating from instances allowing loli / shota. They might be doing it for the pr0n, but also for a matter of Open Culture, "first they came for the minority" et al. I'd prefer a lighter step to be taken first, something like Mastodon's suspend / mute (where you don't block the connection but also you don't advertise / forward it), but my understanding is ATM this kind of platform don't have such option.

I came here because of the lack of defederated instances, if we start to do so I will simply migrate to some other instance

I don't want anyone to filter my content, I agree lolis are disgusting and I think it should be banned from existence but I don't want anyone to chose for me what to show

Defederation only for illegal content

They don't allow loli. it was a miscommunication

I personally think this type of content is disgusting, but I'm also aware that I dont speak for everyone. So everyone's input would be appreciated. Would people prefer to block these communities on an individual basis or out right defederate the whole servers?

The two types of instances people should seek to defederate from are ones for fascism and abusers. I know a lot of the Loli(and I presume Shota) defenses are claims that these characters only have childlike bodies. I disagree personally though. In any anime I've seen a Lolita character, they also behave like a child. They may claim she's a 2000 year old vampire, but she's acting like a child. That character is an abuser fantasy. They want to take advantage of that ignorance. There are probably plenty of people who like that body type innocently, but I believe there are many more who's intentions are vile to say the least.

So I'm totally new to Lemmy (reddit refugee), but a big draw for forums like these is freedom of speech (content). While I personally find it horribly distasteful, I can also moderate it on my own. Personally I enjoy firearms and hunting, some people would find hunting horribly distasteful and while I'm drawing parallels that aren't entirely equal, I think the main point remains. Let people moderate their own content as they see fit and have the moderators stick to what is 100% against the rules/law.

I think they should be. Horrible shit like this should be defederated. That's my opinion anyway. I know it isn't "real" abuse, but to be honest I think depicting it is sickening. And I don't think free speech should be used as an excuse.

I hope I never come across a post from them, I would be pretty upset seeing it. But I would block it anyway. I would appreciate not seeing it to begin with though.

Is anyone aware of research on the effects of drawn/animated CSAM on non-abusers becoming abusers? Is it a way for them to safely address their urges without harming a real person, thereby decreasing abuse, or does indulging in it in fiction reinforce the desire and make them more likely to abuse in reality?

For some semi-parallels... On one hand, it's pretty well established that violent video games don't make people more violent in real life. But on the other, hitting a pillow because you're angry cements that physical response to anger and does make you more likely to hit a person in the future. I'm a little bit inclined towards thinking video games are a more similar scenario, but brains are complicated and I'm not an expert.

If animated content like this actually reduces abuse, or even if it's neutral, I'm in favor of keeping it accessible. If it increases abuse, though... not so much.