Not to nitpick but to me the title of this post is implying that XXY individuals are born female. Generally they’re born male.
What the comment is referring to is likely Swyer Syndrome, where the individual has an XY configuration but a dysfunctional gene in the sex-determining region of the Y chromosome. This means the embryo develops female anatomy and the resulting children tend to identify female, but they lack functional gonadal tissue. It’s estimated to occur at a rate of about 1 in a 100,000 females.
By the by, treatment for these individuals usually involves removing the dysfunctional gonadal tissue as it often becomes cancerous (which often gets misunderstood as “gender reassignment surgery”) and supplemental hormone replacement therapy. They would be affected too by any bans on hormone administration to kids often connected with trans people. One of the reasons why blanket bans should be a no-go regardless of how you feel about any other trans issue.
I think we can safely say that is nitpicking, but it’s informative and correct so I’m all for it!
From my biology lessons 20 years ago, I thought I was taught that it was the presence of a second X chromosome that made a person genetically female, but I could definitely be misremembering. Either way, XXY individuals are usually born male, and Dr Genetics Federation was likely talking about sawyer syndrome (or so google tells me). Thanks for the correction!
Not in humans, no! While in some animals sex determination is purely about X dosage (Drosophila), in humans the Y chromosome is actually sex-determining. In females the second X chromosome actually gets inactivated as a means of gene dosage compensation.
There's also androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) in which the person develops female characteristics. In some cases they carry a child to term with embryo transfer.
Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) is a difference in sex development involving hormonal resistance due to androgen receptor dysfunction.
Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) is an AIS condition that results in the complete inability of the cell to respond to androgens.
The unresponsiveness of the cell to the presence of androgenic hormones prevents the masculinization of male genitalia in the developing fetus, as well as the development of male secondary sexual characteristics at puberty, but does allow female genital and sexual development in those with the condition.
Individuals affected by CAIS develop a normal external female habitus, despite the presence of a Y chromosome, but internally, they will lack a uterus, and the vaginal cavity will be shallow, while the gonads, having been turned into testicles rather than ovaries in the earlier separate process also triggered by their Y chromosome, will remain undescended in the place where the ovaries would have been.
Most individuals with CAIS are raised as females.They are born phenotypically female and are usually heterosexual with a female gender identity; however, at least two case studies have reported male gender identity in individuals with CAIS.
Part of the issue with removing the nuts (gonadal tissue?) Is that these people have major issues with bone density and other sex hormone related problems whereas the risk of cancer is similar to any male getting testicular cancer.
They aren't given a choice because the surgery happens at a young age, yet they have to bear the medical consequences.
So disclaimer here, I’m only savvy on the molecular bio and can’t speak as much to the actual healthcare side of things, but the actual diagnosis is a little more complex than what I’ve written here. Sometimes streak gonads (gonadal tissue which failed to become fully functional ovaries or testes) will still contain some testis or ovarian tissue which will produce hormones. Just depends on the severity of the gonadal dysgenesis.
But as you’ve written it here is seems NPR is implying the surgery itself causes bone density issues? Those issues arise due to an absence of sex hormones, which would still be a problem in complete gonadal dysgenesis. This is why treatment is usually paired with hormone therapy as well as surgery.
I can’t speak to the relative risks of either, though. As with any surgery and treatment, it’s a medical decision with a lot of factors.
Yes. Though I’d point out that HRT covers a much broader range of pathologies than what the current media landscape covers.
As far as I understand, in the original etymology, “replacement” in HRT referred to the fact that the hormone source is coming externally to buoy up a diminished supply in the body. It’s not (necessarily) referring to “displacement” of a hormone that’s already there. More like this usage: when you run out of milk, you go to the store to replace it.
Technically menopausal hormone therapy is HRT, for example. Testosterone replacement in males with low circulating levels is another. Nowadays the usage is definitely shifting, though, and clearly it has a different colloquial meaning.
I was having a civil and boring discussion with someone on a (non-anonymous) forum once about a highly specific technical thing, and then some random person decides to write something along the lines of "I have nothing to add to this conversation, but I just want to point out that the guy you're talking to is actually an employee of <well known company> :)"
I don't know if that guy felt any cringe after posting that, but I sure as hell felt it for him. Neither of us really knew how to respond to that, and it kind of just killed the discussion to avoid that awkwardness.
Sometimes I still think about that guy. Is he still vicariously Pretty Woman'ing people? Did he accomplish some of his life goals? I hope so.
Because these are not too rare. It’s one of the more frequent mutations.
But even a person with XXY is a male. Since the male gonosome is considered as a mutation of an X chromosome. Somewhere in the evolution of mammals and other vertebrates (or most likely much earlier) something messed up and created the Y chromosome from an X chromosome. That’s why genetic diseases are usually more frequent in males, since one branch of the X chromosome does not have some backup. It’s simply missing.
So whenever a person has one Y chromosome. It is considered male.
The lack of a Y chromosome is considered a female.
This can also be seen in people with genetic disorders, such as three gonosomes.
XXX is a female
XYY is a male
XXY is also a male.
And to everyone’s information: I am for Germany and we do not have two words for sex and gender.
I don’t understand what you English speakers are up to.
I just wrote a comment above but I believe OP is mixing XXY with what the comment was about, which is likely Swyer Syndrome: XY individuals with female anatomy and gonadal dysgenesis. While they have a Y chromosome, a defective sex-determining gene leads to a failure to sexually differentiate into male gonadal tissue and leads to subsequent loss of downstream sex hormone production.
So I assume such people are identified as females at birth.
But if their chromosomes indicate that they are male, what’s the gender then?
I think it’s a male then, right? Because when a defect leads to malformations, it still is a malformation. One that people could probably live very well with.
And to everyone’s information: I am for Germany and we do not have two words for sex and gender.
I don’t understand what you English speakers are up to.
I don’t understand what you mean here? I’m sure biological sex and gender identity are considered separate ideas even in languages without a specific word for them. To my mind a lot of transphobia comes from people not understanding there’s a difference between sex and gender.
As for the XXY, I’m OP and that’s my mistake. I misremembered my biology lessons and thought a second X chromosome made someone biological female, rather than the presence of an Y chromosome making someone male. I replied to someone else explaining my mistake.
I don’t understand what you mean here? I’m sure biological sex and gender identity are considered separate ideas even in languages without a specific word for them.
Some people here in Germany claim so. These people use the English word “gender”, because German doesn’t offer a specific word for that. But I don’t understand why one has to differentiate. I don’t think there is gender identity.
Identity is the constitution of my character and my values. Feelings and emotions are not part of character, they are reactions to stimuli.
To my mind a lot of transphobia comes from people not understanding there’s a difference between sex and gender.
But that’s barely comprehensible to me. How could it ever be, if my language does not offer this differentiation.
The way we talk strongly affect the way we think. And I am not thinking in categories such as gender and sex.
There is just gender (the last sentences sound weird. But I simply cannot translate it)
As for the XXY, I’m OP and that’s my mistake. I misremembered my biology lessons and thought a second X chromosome made someone biological female, rather than the presence of an Y chromosome making someone male. I replied to someone else explaining my mistake.
They are talking about things like Androgen Insensitively Syndrome where XY people are born with female anatomy. This is because the chromosome dosen't determine gentials but rather the hormones that chromesome creates. In the case of Androgen Insensitivity the body dosen't respond to male hormones so develops female gentials despite having male chromesomes because female is the default. Weiredly enough though the gonads are still male.
Well, since there is just one word in German for sex and gender, it’s the same thing here, some people try to use the English word gender (untranslated) here.
But I simply don’t understand why this is needed. It’s getting so mixed up and complicated, but at the same time it barely has any relevance. Because what does it add to society, dialogue or communication?
German is a very precise language, and I don’t understand why some people try to soften it up with the English term of gender. It’s so weird.
Gonna add this clarification up here for you: sex is xy or xx etc. Gender is wearing dresses and playing with barbie dolls, vs space ships and army toys.
Its pretty obvious xx has nothing to do with the color pink, and so sometimee xy's prefer these societal structures, so they adopt them as their own.
Technically if an xy was risen as the female gender, they wouldnt even be transgender - their original structure was pink and shit, and so they never changed it. (There is argument that xx -> pink and xy -> army is aligned on the same "side", so any deviation would be trans - but realistically theres only historical basis for this, nothing that would even make it to the hypothesis stage, much less official definition)
Okay, this description was really funny, but gender is more complex and inherent and can't be totally reduced to the social aspects. I say that getting my hormones corrected "fixed me" because, after years of antidepressants and anxiolytics and therapies, turning off testosterone is what finally alleviated a constant, lifelong feeling of something being inherently, unquenchably wrong. This was a feeling I'd had all my life. Treating it psychologically never touched that feeling. Even as my depression and anxiety and truama responses improved, that feeling remained. Even social transition just made it easier to cope with. HRT turned it off. If you or anyone else reading this is familiar with the Dark Tower books, I've long made comparisons to Jake's split timeline. You know implicitly that you should be having a different emergent experience of life, of body, of puberty, but time's arrow neither slows nor reverses. You're stuck living in two timelines, and every step towards transition brings them closer to harmony, and at least for me, HRT totally collapsed them into a single life. This is the human experience that has the cultural mapor code of pink vs armies laid over it.