You're viewing a single thread.
If only people could understand the basic concept that hating a government is possible without hating the people living there.
Exactly. Hamas is a monstrous organization based on the most corrupted religious fundamentalism, but I have nothing but love for the people of Gaza.
Reminder that Hamas is widely supported by most Palestinians
53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is "most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people"
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
First of all I really wouldn't put much weight on the voting results in an area where Hamas uses violence for decades to keep in power. Especially if there isn't any semblance of a modern democratic state such as regular(!!) elections, freedom of speech and a free press. A 1-2 generation long youth indoctrination like the Nazis did also really doesn't create an educated and politically mature population.
And of course 53% still leaves a huge amount of people who aren't in favour. Not to mention that there is a 70+ year long ongoing conflict which has left pretty much no one in Gaza (or Israel for that matter) who doesn't know someone getting hurt or killed by the opposing side's actions. It's hardly surprising that there's hard feeling (major understatement) in a lot of people.
And lastly we certainly wouldn't want to use public opinion as justification for killing civilians. That's the reasoning the likes of Osama bin Laden do to justify shit like 9/11.
TL;DR: This conflict is complicated as hell and basically a self fueling cycle of hatred where even the good side is acting very shitty a lot of times.
whatever do you mean by "the good side"? there is no good side.
This.
maybe it's not complicated. All groups who fight oppressors have been labelled as violent extremists. so perhaps it's actually quite simple.
This conflict is anything but simple. Nearly a century of bloody violence by both sides seldom makes for a clear good vs evil conflict. The fact that Hamas still is the worse autocratic despotic ruler when compared to the hardliner wanna be authoritarians of Netanyahu's party proves that. Fighting back against oppression doesn't absolve you from the human duty of compassion and when you indiscriminately kill civilians your fight isn't justice anymore but just another crime against humanity!
Maybe back when the Zionist militants/terrorist first started to wage their war to get their own country one could have pointed at one side as the good one. But since then both sides have committed countless atrocities. The only thing for sure is that neither kids deserve to grow up in such an environment and to be raised to continue the fight for another generation.
Seems like the Palestinians want the right to return to their homes and communities and Israel just can't find a way to give a damn.
Because they feel that trying to reason with Israel has zero effect.
Statistics without context are worse than lies.
I think he was referring to Israel?
The ol Lemmy switcheroo.
Hold my pita and hamas, I'm goin in!
I don't think so. Hamas makes way more sense
Yes, exactly. It's worth noting though, that many good people are brought into these regimes, and are folded into the hate by their leaders, and the hate they receive from the extremists that oppose them. Not only do terrorists and gangs harm those they seek to harm, but they also grow and root their evil into the normal and healthy communities they base themselves in. Both Hamas and Israel are poisoning their own people more than those they directly kill.
I know that Israel has been doing nothing but brutalizing Palestinians, but Hamas shot back a few times so they're basically the same.
I know, right? Don't they know reality is a zero sum game?
Horrific acts done against a group of people cancel out the horrific acts they do. As long as the other side is "worse" you can torture, murder, and rape all you want -- it's totally justified. Especially if you indiscriminately target defensless civilian populations for your "revenge".
You are morally obliged to shoot and kill people who are invading your country. The fact that includes civilians is not the fault of Hamas. Just a thought: if you don't want to get killed in a war maybe don't kick out the inhabitants to move into an active war zone??
And yes, it's an active war zone. Even the EU calls them what they are: an illegal occupation. You are passively supporting ethnic genocide.
Should US border guards shoot women and children trying to illegally cross in from Mexico?
Those civilians who are now being killed live mostly on the border of Gaza - these aren’t settlers, they don’t live in occupied territory.
Many others who were killed and kidnapped were kids at a rave near the border. Were the terrorists morally obliged to shoot them? Were they morally obliged to strip the women and beat them and post the videos online? Was the German tourist they did this to yesterday an invader?
not sure why you conflate women and children seeking asylum as invaders. that's embarrassing.
lemee speedrunning their defederation
Can you only think in terms of groups? Believe it or not, I did not join lemm.ee because of my politics or whatever, I just like the name.
Interesting that your first response to an opinion you don’t agree with is a call for defederation. Ignoring the opinions and ideas of people you disagree with puts you in an echo chamber.
Look at thier comment history. Defederating is their go to response for everything
Shot back a few times? You haven't been watching the news, have you
I didn't realize "doing nothing but brutalizing Palestinians" includes providing power and water to the gaza strip because the Palestinian leadership was too corrupt build power and water treatment plants with the numerous millions of dollars of international and Israeli aid earmarked for that purpose.
why can't we all just live in my peace and tranquility.
Palestine has been trying peace for well over a decade. Israel doesn't care. They like the violence and they benefit from the violence.
my comment was meant to be sarcastic. it's easy for the oppressors to wonder why the oppressed won't just roll over and take the boot.
Yes soooooo peaceful to elect a government who's founding charter calls for the killing of every single Jew in Israel and out of it. Oh my God I can't get over how peaceful it is. Those poor Palestinians not being able to genocide Israel goly gee willikers.
Ukrainians have killed civilians but I don't think they generally target civilians in the way Hamas does. We should absolutely be arming palestinian moderates to prevent incursions and settlements like we are in Ukraine, though.
Israel does though
One of my favorite quotes:
If I have one message to give to the secular American people, it’s that the world is not divided into countries. The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don’t know each other, but we talk together and we understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same. - Marjane SatrapiDifferent situation, same idea.
I mean, look at the United States
Israel claims to be a democracy and also commits genocide.
-
Democracy and genocide are separate
-
Israel is by definition obviously not committing genocide, the Palestinians population is only going up
-
Russians understand. Belorusians too.
Original comment has 3 downvotes, mine 9. "It's different" it seems.