Imagine you're a landless peasant, western leftist copypasta
Imagine you're a landless peasant, western leftist copypasta
Imagine that you're a landless peasant from a poor country in West Africa:
You've been ground down your entire life, toiling for 12 hours a day in the sun for a small barely subsistence wage. Your parents were born as colonial subjects in a European colony. Your grandparents were essentially slaves. Your great grand parents were formally slaves. After decolonization, the CIA backed a coup in your country that installed a brutal dictator that terrorized your people and chopped up your parents for having been involved in the decolonial struggle.
You find out about a subversive political group that's been preaching everything you know intuitively but could never articulate. They say that your labor is exploited, and the reason your pay is so low is because a cut gets sent to the West where white people will get to use it to live lavishly. The group is your local Communist Party.
You get educated through free classes by the Communist Party and eventually become a member. You risk imprisonment for just being a member and the ruling regime has been known to disappear and torture Communists. You don't care, it's worth it. You've now read virtually all of Marx and Lenin and Mao and Fanon etc despite never having attended school. Your involvement in the Party over the years gets you into influential positions within it.
You attend an international meeting of Communist Parties as a representative from your country. It's an extreme honor to work with comrades from all around the world. You hear their stories and realize that their struggles are the same whether they're in Africa, the Middle East or Latin America. The group sets out to work on a principled anti-imperialist line to help liberate all these comrades from the grip of imperialism and eventually capitalism. You understand that socialism is impossible in your country until the aggression and exploitation from the West ceases, so this is very important to you. You and your comrades have decided that despite many of their flaws, you should support Russia as a counterweight to US Imperialism which has utterly decimated your peoples, as well as DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, and China, which have all always stood by your comrades when they fight Western occupation and exploitation.
On the other side of the world, sitting in an air conditioned suburban home that is worth more than all the homes and possessions of all the people in your village combined, is the infamous western anarchist (or democratic socialist, whatever they're going by at the moment). He's 28 and recently laid off from his job as assistant manager at pizza hut. He's not a millionaire or anything but he never has to skip meals, has electricity, clean running water, and owns a catalog of video games worth more than your annual salary. He's never had to work more than a 10 hour shift baking bread sticks. He's been living off his parents who are both retired and receive generous pensions funded by collecting dividends from companies that exploit your village. The western leftist looks at his laptop made with rare earth minerals from your country (three of your cousins died in the mines) and is also worth enough to feed your children for three years.
He sees on Twitter dot com that an international group of Communist Parties has released their Anti-Imperialist line in support of Russia. The western leftist reads it as he sips coffee that was made from beans grown in your comrade's home country, where his mother, father and aunt and uncle were all killed by CIA-backed death squads. The western leftist reads the article and is incensed. "How could they do this? How could they be this stupid? Fucking tankies, don't they know you can support oppressed people without supporting authoritarian dictatorships"?
(Taken with slight modifications from an old post on CTH, that place had the occasional gem)
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Imperialist conflict just works to redistribute the colonys among the different imperialist. Russia is in no way anti imperialist, they just fight to be to become the bigger imperialist.
Just like a cop who arrests a fascist for stealing something isn't anti fascist.
You're wrong. Russia is by virtue of action(s) anti-imperialist broadly in their foreign policy. They also do not fit Lenin's criteria for imperialism. In other words, please check your liberalism (CIA propaganda), this is a Marxist instance. What they would like to do is irrelevant. What they can do is at hand. They would like to have joined the club of NATO as an equal partner to France, Britain, Germany, they were refused. The western bourgeoisie refuse to share and so the Russian bourgeoisie have no choice but to seek profit where they can in arming the disaffected, the victims of imperialism, their friends from the days of the Soviet Union who still have good relations with them.
They are capitalist yes. But they cannot become an imperialist bloc like NATO. It's just not possible. All that's possible in the near term is either continued reign of imperialist terror by NATO hegemony continuing unchecked OR multi-polarity in which Russia cannot possibly act fast enough or with enough willing partners (their largest ally China is a Marxist-Leninist state working to free countries of the shackles of the west via better loans, infrastructure and investment as we speak so will not aid them in such an endeavor) to simply become a similar hegemon.
The current imperialist order is not built next to the skeleton of European colonialism it is built directly on its foundations. Hundreds of years finally coalescing in the post World-War-2 era with the US troops already occupying their countries, the bourgeoisie of those European nations taking the knee and pledging their fealty to it against communism. The neo-colonialist regimes of international institutions built off that post-war consensus and kept meaningfully powerful through US dollar hegemony. The roots of such exploitation and coercion of the global south going back to compradors whose families served the old colonialist regimes as well as new movers who were trained in schools of the Americas, with the US military, etc. Many revolutionary activities suppressed to this day through the continued work of UK/French/American intelligence having power over those regions and interests in their continued exploitation and subjugation. Laws, debts, etc that favor this western-european sphere and which cannot be simply resurrected in Russian flavor overnight. You propose that the Russians will do in years or a decade what is in fact the work of centuries and without the cooperation of western Europe who would actively fight and resist them in such an endeavor and without the help of China who likewise would undercut them with fair investment.
Propagandized, idealist nonsense.
While I do agree with you that Russia is nowhere as big an imperialist as the US, NATO or China. This doesn't mean that Russia is not imperialist and certainly not anti imperialist. I must also critic you on your way of discussing, while I disagree with you it would be entirely wrong to call either of us liberals. This is nothing more than name calling.
I have limited time to lay out my argument so if you're interested in why I want all imperialists out of Ukraine not just those who come from the west but also those who come from the east and why I define both as such I would recommend this article https://www.marxist.com/imperialism-today-and-the-character-of-russia-and-china.htm while I have my critiques of it, it is sufficient.
You should ask yourself why someone went to absurd lengths to tie themselves in knots making a terrible false equivalence argument.
This is just terrible. Kautsky and Trotsky...
In the above quoted passage, Lenin describes its essential features: monopoly, the domination of finance capital, the export of capital, the development of international monopolies, and territorial division. Is this definition correct? Yes, it is very correct. *But it is correct as a general statement. *And like all general definitions, it does not necessarily cover every single case.
This part stood out as the shark jumping moment.
The reason these spoofers are so desperate to label Russia "Imperialist" is because they then get to dismiss all of the US/NATO provocations of the war. Russia invaded cos imperialism, nothing more. This article is designed to fool you.
Russia is an industrial capitalist nation, not a finance capitalist one. It cannot be imperialist, not for a long time yet.
While the majority of Russian capital isn't financial it is still developing it's financial institutions which requires imperialism.
While I stand by my statement that this conflict is between imperialist powers it isn't necessary to agree that Russia is imperialist to realize it's actions aren't something to be supported.
What would change if Russia won, what would improve? Would Ukraine be anaxed to Russia? Another late stage capitalist state without even a shroud of democracy. Would a pro Russian puppet replace the pro Nato one? How does this improve the lives of Ukrainians.
Furthermore; even if Russia was sosialist and had genuinely anti imperialist and anti nazi intentions, their actions would still be condemnable. Moast Ukrainians fond want Russia, they want to join the EU.
The better way to combat western imperialism is to build support among the masses, but instead of sharpening the contradictions between Ukrainians and western imperialism and local comprador beurocrats they have dulled it and maid the primary controdiction a military national defense one.
While the majority of Russian capital isn’t financial it is still developing it’s financial institutions which requires imperialism.
We need to agree on some first principles if we're going to discuss further. Imperialism is the end stage of capitalism, reached after financial capitalists have taken over and the principal characteristic of the economy is the export of capital rather than raw materials or finished goods. Russia is not nearly at this stage yet. I couldn't even name a single Russian bank. Imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism where finance capitalists export capital rather than commodities and these capitalists become the most dominant.
Some people have a wrong idea that the capitalist class is a unified entity that works in opposition to the domestic working class and imperialised peoples around the world. This is true when taking a high-level view, but it breaks down when looking into the capitalist class and motivations of state actors in detail.
There's many different capitalist interest groups, but the one that is by far the most powerful and dominant in global politics are the financial capitalists. This group of capitalists always come to dominate over all others, most capitalists require access to financial capital to expand their businesses, or to weather difficult circumstances in the marketplace. Financial capitalists gradually gain control of all industries through being able to see the movements of each industries and them being the spider in the web, put simplistically. Then they reach out beyond their borders and often team up with other financial capitalists through mergers etc. This is called imperialism, the final stage of capitalism. All capitalism eventually ends up here. Russia will too, but not yet.
The major capitalist interest group in opposition to the finance capitalists are the always shrinking group of industrial / national capitalists. These are private owners of domestic industries who mainly derive most of their profits from operating within the borders of a particular country (or the EU or whatever). Donald Trump would be an example of one of these, and he'd be in political alignment with many other industrial capitalists, Denis O'Brien and the like another smaller version, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos too. Their politics tend to be libertarian in nature, the social conservative aspect of their politics is just a front they put up to gain the electoral support of naïve socially-conservative people and exploit them. They don’t really care about religion or guns or anything like that. They like traditionalism because it provides them with a reliable exploitable source of labour. They would have opposed women in the workplace until they realised they could exploit them too without risk. Same with LGBTQ+ stuff, they used to be opposed but are now less so. A lot of conservative politics comes from this group.
Financial capitalists live above, on the backs of industrial / national capitalists through their control of access to capital. Mainly in the form of private banks, through ownership of financial instruments, through the sale of insurance, or through extraction of economic rent from workers, who are mostly employed by national capitalists of various sorts. Their goals are to control states using political instability, which they accomplish by overthrowing governments hostile to their interests in order to control the financial underpinnings of as many countries as possible. They want constant expansion of this power and control over nation states, and they want to eliminate any competition when it comes to other powers that exist outside their sphere of influence.
Russia is a prime example of a country that stands opposed to western financial imperialism. In that country, national industrial capitalists are largely in control of their economy and government after western financial capitalists pillaged Russian industry after the fall of the USSR. This is upsetting to western finance capitalists, which want to destabilise Russia and would love to install a government that is friendly to western finance so they can pillage it again. it slipped out of their grasp with Putin, they want it back.
Through this lens the world becomes a lot clearer. You can understand that Italian fascist Meloni ranting about family values etc as something typical of a national/industrial capitalist, at odds with the financial imperialism of the EU represented by Von Der Leyen et al. Likewise you can see Trump as a representative of industrial capitalism versus the big banks he was ranting about trying to break up etc. Or again you can understand what's happening with Ukraine. It's western finance capitalist imperialism versus Russian industrial capitalism. Putin is the Russian industrial capitalist's godfather.
Russia's industrial capitalists have already been raped by the US twice before now, which is why they trust Putin as their administrator. He lets them do what they want as long as they don't fuck over Russia. He's a far right wing capitalist dictator, but one that prioritises a strong and functional Russia over one that collapses to be strip-mined and sold off by NATO. Given the lack of real alternatives (the Communist party was outlawed for a time), Putin has clearly been the only real option for Russians for most of the past two decades. They will not be pillaged a third time, hence this completely predictable Ukraine reaction. Also hence Trump's sympathies with Russian industrial capitalist oligarchs versus international finance. He hates the bankers, he understands the industrial oligarchs. Russia is nowhere near being able to do imperialism at any scale worthy of calling it that.
Again, the point of them getting you to repeat the line that Russia is imperialist is to give you a magic word to use to dismiss America's igniting of the war.
You really have to be fucking dumb to take Chaina as imperialist.
You may paint yourself in red. Maybe even read theory, maybe even have a shelf full of it. Maybe even have significant parts memorized (by rote or otherwise, it matters not, there are creationists who hold PhD's in Evolutionary Biology). But your analysis is pure ignorance and I think in this era almost has to be born of liberal indoctrination and propaganda. It does not matter if you can put on a red cap and think for a bit using a Marxist lens if you are willing to take it off and indulge in this nonsense.
Mao long ago spoke of those who "kept both kinds of goods in stock" referring to those who had their liberalism and their Marxism too and kept them separate and applied each to different situations according to their inclinations or their desires to maintain relations. He also spoke out against the Ultra-left but in the modern era, in the west I have come to think many deviations (anarchist and Ultra both) are driven not out of genuine misunderstanding but of subconscious continual acceptance of the liberal propaganda.
How convenient to be against imperialism without real solutions in a way that mirrors the US state dept line. How delightful to be a purist in a messy world. How lovely to be an insulated, privileged person who unlike the average proletarian of the global south cannot identify how Russia benefits them and is materially different from and better than the US/NATO bloc.