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No, it means you won't be able to work and will now have to fight over garbage to eat if you want to survive.
I really don't understand your logic, guys. Why would that (supposedly evil) guy give you anything for free? Why are you his responsibility? Why don't you go and build your own robot? Or maybe you don't need a robot. Find a land, and start farming your own food.
I really don't understand this logic... who taught you that you're entitled to other people's achievements and successes?!
The rich guy didn't built the robot by himself. Most likely he only financed by paying the people who actually built it. He didn't built his business by himself but paid people to built it for him even if he had the idea.
He had an idea because he's smart and had the education to support his intelligence. He had that education because someone paid for it, either family or the state. Even if he paid for it he had the upbringing that taught him the value of education and had the luck to be born in a country where that education is valued and pays off.
Nothing he has was built by himself only. The only thing we do by ourselves is taking a shit.
Yeah it helps if daddy is rich, like Donald Trump who claims he did it all by himself, on a "small" ($ 60 mill.) loan from his dad, and then he inherited a huge fortune.
Or Elron Musk who grew up on the benefits of daddy owning an emerald mine.
Both are absolutely the worst kind of narcissist sociopaths that come from privilege, so the old claim of the rich having heavy responsibilities they learn to manage, is complete bullshit too.
"most likely"? So basically there's zero success stories from people who started in their garage and made a multi-billion empire? Go check how Google and Apple started. No one is stopping you from doing something great and becoming a billionaire other than your delusion of entitlement to free money and work from others.
neither really started in a garage: https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/05/steve-wozniak-apple-starting-in-a-garage-is-a-myth
you just drink the kool aid from billionaires thinking you'll be like one but you never will, the amount of money the 1% has is an amount noone should ever have
The simple fact that Gates' school even HAD a computer HE COULD RESERVE TIME ON for a personal project really highlights how much wealth he had access to. Gates was never super rich growing up, but he and the rest had access to privileges few had in those days because of the wealth they had access to.
Even if they truly started the business from modest means, they still benefited from living in a strong stable educated society with all the resources and infrastructure etc that provides. There's a reason you don't see many entrepreneurs from sub Saharan Africa.
There are videos out there showing this, so, don't believe the bullshit you read online to rile you up.
And in fact, if your sources on company success is random articles online, you do deserve to stay poor. Mission accomplished.
why do you think I'm poor? what videos? I provided sources you just pretend to be smart.
Because rich people don't cry on social media "the world is not fair, and I'm entitled to other people's free labor because I'm a loser". I have people around me from both sides of the aisle, and guess who complains like you are? Hint: It's not those who have good jobs and rare skills they busted their asses to get.
Videos: Off the top of my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOtlSM9eehc
wtf are you even talking about?? when did I ever say anything like what you said?? I said that the myth that google and apple started in a garage is fake. That's it. Get the fuck out of your head and learn to read.
And you criticize my sources and provide a video without them.Really smart guy move.
Men these "libertarians, rugged individualist, free market" are fuckin retarded
Well, you can physically SEE THE FUCKING GARAGE. You'll believe some text over your own eyes?
Getting funding doesn't mean it's not a garage. Facebook started in a house in SF and before that it was in a freaking dorm, and got funding later. So what?! Does that mean it didn't start in a dorm room?
Yeah, go believe whatever makes you happy to believe that you're a loser no matter what. Believe that.
you better work on your reading comprehension my guy or is that not a valuable skill?
"They had funding from multiple people but they started in a garage!! So anyone can do it!"
We just need funding, parents with money or connections and going back to before the internet was widespread to make it, got it
Also, nice of you to not even backpedaling on calling me poor just cause your stupid ass is too stupid to read properly
Even those people needed others' work to start their own company my dude. The chips in Apple computers or servers that Google relied on didn't grow on trees. Not to mention that the billionaires you mentioned were educated.
Guess who funded their education. Either directly or indirectly.
You're not gonna convince anyone here that you lack the resources to start a company in your bed room. You're just lazy and you don't want to work. It's that simple.
Evidence? Tons of millionaires don't even have college degree.
How many of those millionaires contribute something positive to the world? There are some who've made systems to automatically reset power breakers on distribution lines, automate management of water flow to large farms, etc.
Then there are morons like you who sell pillows filled with low quality foam out of their garage.
And who decides whether it's positive... you? You, Mr. Loser on lemmy who wants to quantify value, not based on people's valuation for it, who freaking paid for it, but based on whatever standard gives you free money so that you don't feel like such a loser serving coffee in Starbucks? Get out of here!
Uh, moron, look up the difference between "quantify" and "qualify". You've swapped them, but I'm not surprised.
Anyway yeah, in discussions with a large number of people across different walks of life, the important things in life seem to be clean running water, quality food and the ability to make positive change in the world we had no choice being born into.
What is positive change? Slightly nebulous, but it seems to center on making people around them happier and have an easier life. Money doesn't seem to factor into that, it's more about "quality" of life. Wouldn't you want that for your friends and family too?
Maybe this would work in middle ages when there was some untaken land to settle on.
It still works today. Lands exist, and they're even very cheap. A couple 10k USD and you get yourself farmable land. But it needs real hard work.
What makes the rich guy entitled to be rich?
What kind of logic is that? What's stopping you from being rich? Did someone assign who gets rich and who isn't?
Go make a company, build something the people need, and make money!
Did you see how Jeff Bezos looked like in the 90s? He was begging for investment money to create Amazon, while investors asked "what is internet?". No one is entitled to anything. You work hard and you might succeed if you do it right.
What's stopping you from being rich?
Let's say this is right. Then you should try to explain this: Why are most people not rich?
Did everyone just collectively decide "nah I want to be poor, be stressed and live paycheck to paycheck"? No, of course they don't. No one does.
Your logic is idiotic because you don't realize the rich became rich by exploiting other people, namely the working class.
Let’s say this is right. Then you should try to explain this: Why are most people not rich?
Because most people are lazy. This is not only a fact based on anecdote, but it's a statistical fact even assuming a normal distribution of effort. And while everything I say is up to debate, this fact is absolutely not up for debate. In fact, I don't waste a single day without learning something new, and I see Every. F-ing. Single. Person... around me not even reading a book and wondering "why do I get paid like shit?", well, "because you're replaceable by anyone, dumbass". Learn a skill that only a small handful can do, and see how the money will fly your way. So, yeah, you guys are lazy. You have no idea how much work success takes on average.
Are they? Or is it because everyone knows their efforts are not compensated properly?
If you want people to not be lazy, pay them. You pay 10 dollars, you get 10 dollars of effort. Blindly labelling this as being lazy is quite a... hear this, a lazy way of thinking. Heh. Millions are studying in university to get a job, I would say that they are working really hard! But are their efforts reciprocated properly?
Effort doesn't mean shit. I can go to the street, pick a rock, and put back down, and redo that 100 times. That's huge effort, but it isn't worth shit. Value isn't measured like this. People who only know how to do one thing anyone can do and don't want to improve are lazy. No other label is appropriate. Make something needed that only a handful can do and you'll be rich.
And btw, learning in a college doesn't qualify as working hard, and more importantly, learning in college isn't a requirement for success. Your whole worldview needs shaking... I feel bad for this generation!
learning in college isn't a requirement for success
Why don't you tell that to the HR departments then? Oh I feel bad for your generation - when basic critical thinking doesn't exist.
I know plumbers who make $250k/year. They didn't go to college.
when basic critical thinking doesn’t exist
When basic life experience doesn't exist except for what you hear on facebook.
I know plumbers who make $250k/year.
And there are college graduates making 90k/yr in the US. That's why I said efforts are not being compensated properly. The fact that other trades are earning more does not affect this conclusion, think about it more.
Imagine basing your judgement on generational stereotypes. Oh no, millennials. Oh no, Gen Z. Oh no, it must be facebook. What other contributional points can you guys provide?
Kind of makes it easier if you can get a 60 million dollar loan from daddy like Trump did.
Or if White Daddy owns an Emerald mine in Black South Africa, taken by force by military from Europe, like was the case for Elron Musk. So how was that fair to all South Africans?
You are completely blind if you think there is an even playing field.
Yes there may be the occasional anecdotes, like Jeff Bezos who weren't born rich, but for them it requires both insanely hard work and luck.
Anecdotes are not a statistic that proves anything. And the statistics clearly say that if you are rich, chances are overwhelming that you were born into it.
Yet the rich have a sense of entitlement that they somehow deserve to be rich, but not the people who have to work two jobs, and never have a vacation. How do you arrive at that is a fair system?
Yes there may be the occasional anecdotes, like Jeff Bezos who weren’t born rich, but for them it requires both insanely hard work and luck.
Wait... being rich requires hard work and luck? Too bad. No one can do that. So go to bed and keep begging for money.
Anecdotes are not a statistic that proves anything.
And what does? Your own interpretation of your own anecdotes that no one succeeded around you?
And the statistics clearly say that if you are rich, chances are overwhelming that you were born into it.
Having a better chance doesn't mean others don't have a chance. Do you even understand statistics?
Too bad. No one can do that.
You don't have any influence on luck. So yes, nobody can do that, that's something you may or may not get.
Having a better chance doesn’t mean others don’t have a chance.
I never claimed any such thing, you are arguing a Straw Man.
You don’t have any influence on luck. So yes, nobody can do that, that’s something you may or may not get.
So basically you don't want to take the chance because there's a chance you'll fail. This is hilarious! No question you're a failure.
Here's a life pro tip: If you don't try, your success chance is 0%. If you do try, its larger than 0%. Simple math.
You guys are really a broken generation! Social media broke you.
So basically you don’t want to take the chance because there’s a chance you’ll fail.
I never wrote anything of the kind, you are arguing another straw man.
You guys are really a broken generation! Social media broke you.
Yet another straw man, that's 3 in a row now. Tell me don't you know what a straw man argument is, since you continue to use them?
Yes, of course. Everything is a straw man. Prove me wrong and stop saying... oh sorry, "hinting" that there's no point in trying. More importantly, stop making that impression to people. We need more people to build new things and work hard. Not more losers in Starbucks serving coffee.
I never said he would give you anything for free. I said quite the opposite. Idk how you interpreted "everyone will have nothing and fight over garbage to eat" as "we'll be given free stuff". It seems you're arguing a point I never made.
It starts with a basic idea like all people should have access to food, clean drinking water, shelter, healthcare, and a basic minimum quality of life. For most people, access to these things are currently granted by working and earning a wage.
Wealth and resources are finite. As a company generates profits and it gets hoarded by a minority of people, that means there are less and less resources every single day for the rest of the population.
As companies implement more automation, there are fewer jobs. With fewer jobs, that means there are fewer people who can afford the basic necessities of life. As companies introduce technology which can work faster than humans, it devalues a humans value to companies meaning less pay for employees, many of whom are living paycheck to paycheck as it is.
Furthermore, with these reductions in cost to produce a product through automation and robotics we do not see a related decrease in consumer prices.
In short, a person earns less while prices of goods continue to rise. The quality of life of the vast majority of the populace is continually going down.
Not everyone can be a CEO, executive, or high earner. It's just a physical impossibility. In addition, these same people weild disproportionate power in the legislature. They are able to manipulate the rules that increase the barrier of entry into a business as well as manipulate markets to prevent my goods from generating a significant profit, if they so desires.
So while I do not feel entitled to what they produce, finding land and starting a farm would not secure those basic necessities of life and the opportunities to do so decrease daily.
It starts with a basic idea like all people should have access to food, clean drinking water, shelter, healthcare, and a basic minimum quality of life. For most people, access to these things are currently granted by working and earning a wage.
No one is entitled to anything. You're confusing what "would be great" with what reality is.
Again, no matter how much automation there is, you can always build your own thing. You don't need a job under anyone. You can go start on your own, fail 100 times, and succeed at time 101. I've seen tons of people do that, including millionaires.
So while I do not feel entitled to what they produce, finding land and starting a farm would not secure those basic necessities of life and the opportunities to do so decrease daily.
What you call "basic necessities" aren't really basic. You want to enjoy modern civilization without contributing to it. Find a way to be part of it, or go back to farming and no one will have beef with you. Your health care today is better than the richest elite 100 years ago. Never forget that, and never forget you're not entitled to any of it.
In short, a person earns less while prices of goods continue to rise. The quality of life of the vast majority of the populace is continually going down.
Because you keep voting for governments that keeps increasing government spending and printing money. You refuse personal responsibility and you think the government should solve all your problems. You can't have it both ways. Either solve your problems by yourself to have a deflationary economy with less government spending, or make the government spend more and enjoy more inflation. It's simple math.
All these are problems you're creating. You're still free to leave to another country to farm your own land.
No one is entitled to anything. You’re confusing what “would be great” with what reality is.
They're entitled if we say they are, just like all the other rights. It would be great, I agree. So let's work on that.
How? By coercing them to give up their success? Hell no. I'm not gonna be part of this! If someone gives up something voluntarily, that's cool. Otherwise I'm against it.
Well they should stop voluntarily taking more token value than they're actually producing if they don't want to share
No, you should stop telling people what to do just because you're not even trying. You're free to be the failure you always wanted to be, but you're also free to do the same and build your own empire with hard work.
You're way off. I already got mine, thanks to my own hard work and the support of friends, family, and the free gifts of civilisation in which we all partake.
I don't deny that I got help to get where I am, and that's it's only right that I pay back into the system that has helped me prosper. It would be criminal not to pay back what I can easily afford. It should be criminal IMO.
Ps if you're seriously interested in continuing this convo in good faith I am too. I promise I'll be less chirpy and more open minded.
I used to think this way. But when tens of millions of people are struggling to pay rent, put food on the table, and buy medicine, it becomes that rich guy's problem. In general you really don't want huge chunks of your population to be desperate with nothing to lose. That's bad news.
If you want to talk economics, this isn't the rich guy's problem. This is the problem that the government is so huge and that it's printing money so much that it's causing inflation to fill the pockets of big corporations. The ethos in lemmy, apparently, is communism due to ignorance, more than understanding economics and trying to implement self-responsibility to fix these problems.
Like I told another guy here: You either shrink the government to get a deflationary economy and make your money better, or you expect your government to solve all your problems and face inflation. You can't have it both ways.
this isn’t the rich guy’s problem
It'll become the rich guy's problem when tens of millions of desperate Americans with nothing to lose grab their pitchforks. We are slowly but surely getting there.
I really doubt it. Have you seen the movie Elysium? It's gonna be the same, except that the ending isn't gonna be that nice because all those with power will side with those who can fund them.
No I haven't, but you better hope you're right, because historically it doesn't go well for the aristocracy when the peasants revolt.
Except that they have planes now. They can fuck things up so bad while accumulating wealth, then fly away and deal with none of the consequences while they spend money from their vast bank accounts in Switzerland.
Didn't this happen in Sri Lanka a few months ago?