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Can you give me an example of legalism? Like a statement a legalist would make. I was raised Christian but hadn't heard the term until now and I'm not sure I really understand what's going on in this exchange
Yeah. Salvation by any means other than by faith alone.
(I am asking in earnest) can you explain it like I'm 5 by telling me something a legalist would say leads to salvation?
Like would they say "you won't be saved unless you donate 100k to the church" or is it more like "You won't be saved because you had sex before marriage"?
I tried to look it up before asking but I still don't think I understand.
Legalism: If you are Good you go to heaven, if you are Bad you go to hell. Follow these rules, so you can be Good 👍
Not Legalism: If you are human you are Bad, and go to hell. No exceptions. Christ died and rose again to make a way to get to heaven. If you trust in him, and not in your own goodness, God will accept Christ's sacrifice in your place.
Hmmm then I was raised with the latter teaching.
Am I understanding correctly that the Not Legalism camp says that a child dies without even knowing that Christianity exists goes to hell/purgatory? Is being taught from the Bible a requirement?
Is the Not Legalism stance that you can be a wicked bastard your whole life but if you repent on your death bed you still get into heaven?
I want to reiterate that I'm not looking to argue if those opinions are good or bad, I am trying to understand the definition.
Yes to wicked bastards going to heaven, as long as it is true repentance. God knows the heart, and just saying the right words isn't going to cut it.
Being taught the Bible is a requirement, but only so that you can understand enough to believe. You don't need to be a scholar by any means.
Dying as a child is a more debated point. Some say there is a period of innocence before which God does not send you to hell (generally seen as children who don't yet understand right from wrong). Others say that this is just wishful thinking. Regardless, it isn't discussed explicitly in the Bible and there are verses that are ambiguous enough to be read either way. For my part, I think that there's no way to be sure until we die and find out, and it doesn't affect any of my other beliefs, so I don't think it matters which one you choose to believe.
Thanks for the thorough answer. I especially appreciate hearing the last part because that's the issue that pushed me out of the church. I had a 2-month conversation with my CCD teacher (stayed after once a week to talk) and he was dead set on two things:
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kids who haven't been introduced to Christianity go to purgatory forever
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What Dreams May Come is an inaccurate portrayal of purgatory (despite it not being described in the Bible. His reasoning was basically "because I said so")
I couldn't handle those answers and the church backed him up. I wonder if I'd still be a follower if I hadn't been given such a hardline answer...
Happy to help. Of course, purgatory in general is a whole different discussion, but I'm sorry to hear that you got pushed away by his stubbornness. It is good to keep learning though, so A+ for you :)
I may not be the devout churchgoer I was as a kid but I do "get it." If you see my name elsewhere on Lemmy, it might even be in the context of defending Christianity. And I'm legitimately angry at the people who have coopted and twisted it for greed.
This is gonna sound trite but I think it's important to understand people who think differently than you...especially nowadays when everyone is so focused on what makes us different. Not just what they think but why they think it.
And now I think I understand Legalism in the context of Christianity so thank you again for that!
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Not really, I'm a simpleton, all i know is God knows our heart and the heart determines. If that helps idk.