Linux 6.14 With Rust: "We Are Almost At The 'Write A Real Driver In Rust' Stage Now"
Linux 6.14 With Rust: "We Are Almost At The 'Write A Real Driver In Rust' Stage Now"
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What is wrong with the commenters on Phoronix? There seem to be a bunch of old dudes who can't accept that C is unsafe and no amount of "skill" will prevent it from being unsafe. They look at 3 decades of unsafe C with thousands of CVEs and still think it's a skill issue.
If you think the comments about Rust are bad, you should check out any article about X11/Wayland or systemd.
Yeah, I don't understand the wayland and systemd hate. Personally, the alternatives are worse in many areas. managing services before systemd was terrible and I'm very happy it's here. Making services depend on magic comments is a terrible system IMO. Can't remember if that's upstart or rinit or whatever.
Wayland hate I at least understand. Their security model makes it not a 1:1 replacement for X11 yet, but that's what it's marketed as.
There's definitely stuff it breaks. I still miss Autokey.
Old NVIDIA gpu here. Wayland is still completely broken for me. I shouldn’t have to buy specific hardware to make my Linux work.
But that is hardly Waylands fault, be angry about Nvidia for having bare to none Linux support for decades.
And yet works fine for me in x11 where my windows and mouse both don’t run at 1fps. I hobby work with ai models and cuda, someone needs to fix it or I’m sticking with x11. I never said it was waylands fault, but given nvidia never acknowledged x11 either and it works over there maybe accepting reality about who is more likely to fix it would be good for that team.
NVIDIA is a billion (maybe trillion now?) dollar company that leaves it up to people in their free time to support their hardware on linux and you're blaming the unpaid devs, not NVIDIA?
I’m not blaming anyone. I’m stating a fact that Wayland does not work for me and that as long as that is true, an opinion that x11 is better. I don’t care who fixes it. Especially in the world of running ai models, it’s more and more important that nvidia works in your environment
A Linux user time traveling from the 90s/00s would be elated to know that one day someone could possibly have this opinion.
There are exactly 3 types of phoronix commenters:
- Trolls
- People falling for the trolling
- Professionals working at intel, red hat, etc who use that site as some kind of communications board for some strange, unknown reason
If you open the comments on Phoronix you have already lost.
Learning that the hard way 😂
I love C and C++ and I talk to someone else who does (comp sci grad) but he's hugely biased against rust and says shit like "rust is cringe it has training wheels, just be good at C"
it's like a weird tech anti-intellectualism
It's just elitism. They think because they've suffered to learn C and have learned all the footguns of the language that they are smarter than people who haven't, so they see anything higher level than C as being a baby language for babies. 30 years ago I'm sure there was the equivalent of people who exclusively worked in assembly who thought the same about C programmers.
30 years ago I’m sure there was the equivalent of people who exclusively worked in assembly who thought the same about C programmers
Isn't it exactly the point Linus was making about Rust?
The C/C++ fandom is...something else. For many, C is perfect for every use case and everything else higher level from C# to JavaScript is nothing but inefficient waste for programmers who aren't good enough for something like C lol
Technically, it is a skill issue though, but requires borderline perfection to achieve safe code. It's still a bad argument and detracts from progress in an area where it's sorely needed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that everything unsafe is because the logic used left something exposed where rust has rules in the language the prevents those had coding practices. C is inherently unsafe, it just doesn't have built in safe guards to keep the dev from using it wrong.
Technically, it is a skill issue though, but requires borderline perfection to achieve safe code
If near perfection is the minimum to achieve a goal, then it can't be a skill issue, IMO. But I agree with the rest. It's a terrible argument that keeps getting repeated, not only for C but many other places in the tech world.
Well performance is important and Rust is fast on paper afaik but idk how it works in real use cases. I don't remember seeing performance benefits on Rust compared to other languages that are not C.
There's a paper about this and with C as the baseline, Rust was 4% slower for the specific tests they ran.
In these tests, Rust is actually faster than C sometimes.
So it really does depend on the workload. However, the safety that rust provides cannot be understated. It's easy to cut corners like in C, but it's difficult to do it right. Rust provides the closest result of right and fast.