Daily Discussion Thread: Sat 15 Jul 2023
Daily Discussion Thread: Sat 15 Jul 2023
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Team, I need some advice. My boss dumped on me yesterday that she wants me to fire an employee who has been with the business for 5 years, however she wants me to tell this employee that I made the decision to fire them and to not mention under any circumstances that she has asked for it to be done. I'm really not ok with this as I see it as me being thrown under the bus and being made to look like the bad guy, i think it also shows a complete lack of integrity and also cowardice on the part of my boss.
The employee in question has had some behavioural problems which have existed since he started years ago, but they only seem to an issue for my boss now. I personally don't think that this employee has done anything severe enough to warrant termination and my boss absolutely doesn't want to provide this employee opportunity to improve or correct the behaviour. I'm at a loss as to what to do, because I think if i am honest with this employee and tell them that it was owners decision to fire them, I will most likely be on the chopping block as well when my boss finds out. Everyone at my work is casually employed so I can be dismissed without notice. I've felt for some time that my boss is a covert narcissist or at the very least has a toxic personality and this pretty much sealed the deal for me. I feel like resigning over this but have no savings and will need to try and find another job. I just don't know what to do.
I'd stay well away from that and write it all down with dates.
Yep I made a note yesterday. I know if i challenge my boss on it she'll consider me unable to do my job and dismiss me so I gotta put a plan together.
Yep. Write it down. If they then do that, then file for unfair dismissal.
Definitely document and start looking elsewhere. That's an untenable situation to be put in and I wouldn't want to work for that boss for another day
@just_kitten @Outlier1031 agree. get your leaving plan together asap, that is a shitty thing to do, I'd talk to Fair Work about it asap, that kind of action is the job of a FULL TIME manager, not a casual staff member, regardless of your role. Get something about the duties you have in writing if possible.
Thank you. Yeah i saw straight through what my boss was doing when they told me. I think because I'm introverted and a respectful person people like my boss think i'm weak and will just do as told. i hate having to deal with people like this
Thanks, i've emailed very reasonable response being like 'so fair work says' and made it about protecting the business. Hopefully she sees reason. But i think i may have effectively checkmated her if she tries to give me grief.
Looking forward to hear what comes of it. I definitely think your approach of trying to protect the business first is smart. Fingers crossed she snaps out of it (I'd still start looking for jobs anyway if I were you...)
While it’s true that casual employees can be dismissed without notice, they can’t just be let go without following the correct procedures. I worked in retail for years and the way the company dealt with getting rid of people was to just decrease the amount of hours they got. If they wanted to actually sit someone down and say ‘you’re fired’, they needed to have followed all of the procedures, such as giving them written warning and putting them on improvement plans. Without that, the worker was fully within their rights to file for unfair dismissal. So before doing anything on behalf of your shitty boss, I would make sure that the procedure has been followed to a t. If any step is missing, or they’ve never given them a written warning (written, as well. Not verbal. There’s no paper trail for verbal), etc, then you wash your hands of that situation. Because if they choose to escalate it, it’s your ass that’s on the line, not your boss’s.
Are you even in an official managerial position that allows you to dismiss people?
So to clarify, I am the Store Manager and I report in to the director of the business who is the one asking me to do this. I absolutely agree regarding following the correct process. As I mentioned, the employee hasn't done anything to warrant instant dismissal but has probably behaved in the way that warrants a sit down and verbal warning. It's also behaviour that the owner has allowed to continue for 5 years without giving warnings verbal or otherwise, so the employee would absolutely be within his rights to go to fair work. I imagine the owner is getting me to do it so it's my ass that stomped and not hers.
Yeah, I would just go back to the director with all all the fair work stuff and say ‘sorry not sorry I don’t want to be sued and I don’t think you do either’
Give them this link: https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/ending-employment If it’s a small business, there’s a seperate checklist that they can follow, but it’s all still essentially the same.
Let them know that, if they have a series concern or issue about the employee, you can sit down with them and give them a warning and do a performance review, but even then, they have to be given a certain amount of time to work on the issue. Your hands are tied and there’s nothing that you, personally, are legally able to do
Thank you. I've emailed my boss and presented my objection in a way that is about protecting the business and suggested going 100% by the book. Hopefully they see reason. If they don't listen, i'm going down the i'll be liable route.
Is it in your job title to hire and fire? If not it's not your problem.
Can you tell your boss you don’t want to do it? With whatever reason will resonate best with your boss. Your boss sounds like a rubbish boss. I once had to fire someone, and it was a hard thing to do, even though I knew it was best for the team. But I owned it and did it as respectfully as I could. No way should that be dumped on anyone else. Time to brush up the resume and keep an eye out if something better comes up. Stay in your job for the income until you are ready, but of course that depends on if your mental health can cope.
Yeah I personally think she is a covert narc there's been a few signs since I started. I've had to fire people many times in the past but i always made sure to follow the correct process.
Holy shit. Don't do it and get something in writing too if you can, like make your reply in writing rather than verbal but reference what you were asked to do. Sounds to me like the director isn't just gutless but manipulative enough for you to be the target if the employee responds with aggression, legal action etc. I'd also bet that the director would stab you in the back and act all sympathetic to the employee.
Thank you. I sent an email to the director this afternoon outlying how the proposed course of action is a risk to the business and proposed performance managing the employee and making sure we have done everything right in the eyes of Fair Work. If they don't listen I'll then hit them with the fact I could be personally liable for not following due process and I'm not prepared to do that.