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@piotrsikora @ernest FYI: lemmy.world is blocking us

https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/955988/Temporarily-blocking-activities-from-kbin-social

I made a comment there yesterday trying to get your attention on this, but not sure if the @ on that post actually went through properly or not, so I'm trying again.

\#kbinMeta

Thanks for putting in something awesome, @ernest! Not sure if you want feedback, but functionality is as full as I know it to be. Maybe better. It is really fast right now! Hope you are on the mend.

@ernest, we love you man, and we're grateful for the service you provide. But this site has needs that can't be met by one person: community mod approval, emergency status communication, spam management, and account management are just a few that immediately come to mind.

I know it has been rough lately, and I sincerely empathize. Internet hug You have a community of loyal people willing to help shoulder the burden if you let them, so please...if you truly want this place to be successful, let us help you. Hope you are okay, man.

Since the beginning of the year, there's been a bit of a pattern over on @kbinDevlog:

• Ernest posts, saying he'll get back to regular devlogs in 1-4 days;
• Absolutely nothing happens for the next 2 weeks or so;
• Ernest posts again, saying he'll get back to regular devlogs in 1-4 days;
• etc.

Now, it's understandable for your plans to change in response to unforeseen events popping up or foreseen events taking longer than expected. From what I can tell, the delays have been due to formalities and medical issues, and I absolutely believe that Ernest should prioritize his physical health over Kbin.

That being said, if you can't go back to the usual pattern of development within the time frame you promised, then it's best for people to know sooner so they aren't left wondering what's happening. If you said 2 days but you need to delay, I'd like to know soon after those 2 days as opposed to getting silence for 2 weeks.

This time around, the culprit of the silence may be complications in a hospital procedure he recently underwent as per his most recent devlog. However, that doesn't explain the periods of nothing before then, so I'm still left wondering why quick updates have been so infrequent over a 2-month period.

Additionally, there are some major problems being caused by Ernest's absence:

• Big magazines that Ernest moderates, like @tech, are riddled with spam.
• Abandoned magazine moderation have been unanswered, so people can't pitch in to deal with spam even if they wanted to.
• Nothing has happened on the Codeberg for over 2 months (except for one translation-related change which wasn't done by Ernest), so we're in the dark as to what progress is actually being made.
• Kbin is still, well, in an undeveloped state, meaning issues like poor microblog federation have persisted for months.

So, @ernest, if you're in a position to answer, what's going on rn, and could you have someone moderate the instance or work on the project in situations like this where you're absent? I hope this doesn't come across as unnecessary whining, but I think this pattern is becoming a genuine problem.

Have been thinking about what kbin can do to combat spam accounts, which are currently on the rise again on kbin.social.

In the past this prevalence of spam has caused issues with federation, so it's potentially a major problem not just for kbin.social but the fediverse overall if spam accounts aren't identified and blocked/deleted quickly.

USER LEVEL ==========

Individual users can block accounts, which is good for blocking accounts that annoy you but which might otherwise contribute positively, but not so good for addressing instance-wide spammers.

MAGAZINE/COMMUNITY LEVEL ==========

Moderators can block accounts at a magazine/community level, which is good for addressing trolls or bots that infest a single magazine, but not so good for addressing instance-wide spammers.

The other downside is that as most magazines only have a single moderator it may take days for mods to block spammers, depending on how active the mod is. In addition there are thousands of magazines on kbin which are abandoned (ie not being actively moderated), so spammers posting to these communities won't be blocked at all.

Increasing the number of mods would help (especially if they could ensure 24/7 coverage) but it's important to keep in mind that the fediverse is still tiny compared to places like reddit and there are very few people who are willing and able to take on these roles, especially on a volunteer basis.

INSTANCE LEVEL ==========

Reporting spam ----------

There is a "report" function, and presumably these generate messages for the instance administrator (@ernest in the case of kbin.social) to action.

I don't know what the admin interface for this is, but it may influence how easily spam accounts may be blocked. For example, if users report 100 posts belonging to 10 different accounts as spam, does this generate 100 separate messages which ernest has to review and action (which could be laborious), or does it group them into 10 different "queues" for the 10 different spam accounts (which would be less laborious to review and action).

The other limitation of course is that, like for magazine-level modding, we're constrained by the fact that kbin.social currently only has one administrator who has a job, a personal life, and is also working hard on further developing the platform.

Tools/approaches that could be used/developed to manage spam at an instance level ----------

I'm not sure what spam combatting abilities are built into (or envisaged for) kbin at an instance level, over and above the "report" function, but some ideas I had are:

A) Appoint more administrator (or other system roles with the ability to block/delete spam accounts)

Ernest could appoint administrators (or other system-level roles, ie not necessarily a full administrator) with the ability to deal with spam.

Upsides: \- Probably relatively easy to implement (depending on what system level roles already exist)

Downsides: \- As for community moderators, there's potential issues of coverage and commitment. \- We may decry corporate-owned social media platforms like reddit, but - being a business with plenty of money coming in - they can at least pay some people to keep an eye on the community (by which I mean admins, not mods), ensure the stability and uptime of the site, and develop enhancements. These are all more difficult in small, privately-funded systems. But that's a much bigger topic, and best left for another day.

B) Limit accounts by IP address

Most spammers create multiple accounts. Limiting the number of new accounts for an IP address could help with this, although that limit shouldn't necessarily be as low as 1 (as you wouldn't want to prevent genuine alt accounts).

Upsides: \- Prevents too many accounts being created from a single IP address (ie most likely from a single person)

Downsides: \- Can be bypassed relatively easily by using VPNs (though it adds an extra step that spammers have to take) Could prevent genuine users from registering (eg if multiple genuine users share an IP address)

C) Manually review and approve new accounts

Some instances require new accounts to answer some questions to allow admins to assess their suitability (and humanity). kbin could institute something like this.

Upsides: \- This could at least limit the creation of new spam accounts, which currently seem to spring up like weeds.

Downsides: \- This approach requires time and resources to set up and keep going. \- It impedes the sign-up experience for genuine users (especially if it takes hours or days to be approved). \- It could be bypassed by sophisticated responses to the challenge questions.

D) Rate limit new accounts

New accounts could be throttled so that they can only post one thread / reply per (let's say) 15 minutes. This limitation could be removed after a certain time or number of posts.

Upsides: \- Limits the "productivity" of spam accounts, making it more difficult for spammers.

Downsides: \- Requires time and effort to build \- Impedes user experience for genuine users \- Depending on how the posting throttling is relaxed, this system could be gamed. For instance, if the throttling is removed after (say) one week, all a spammer has to do is wait a week for the spamming to start.

E) Tie posting limits to reputation or mod reports

The above "rate limit new accounts" approach could be supplemented with an approach whereby posting limits are only removed if the account has neutral or positive reputation, and/or if the account has not been repeatedly reported for spamming.

So, for example, someone registers a new account. For the first week (or whatever time set by an admin-definable parameter), that account can only post once every 15 minutes (or whatever interval set by an admin-definable parameter).

After that first week the system reviews the status of the account. (Alternatively this review could be run "after the first X number of posts" rather than "x number of days".)

If the overall net reputation of the account is less than an admin-definable value (let's say, lower than negative 5), then the account restrictions remain in place, and the account is flagged for an admin (or similar role) to manually review and either block/delete or approve. If the net reputation is above this threshold, the posting limits are removed automatically, ie without manual intervention being required.

Alternatively (or additionally) the system could check how often posts by that account have been reported. If it has been reported more than an admin-definable value, posting limits remain in place and the account is flagged for an admin to review.

Upsides: \- Limits the "productivity" of spam accounts \- Uses the collective user base to identify spam accounts in a more sophisticated way than just reporting these to mods/admins, ie by creating a dataset which can be used by an inbuilt system to more easily help throttle/block spammers

Downsides: \- Requires considerably more time and effort to build \- Still requires a level of ongoing manual administration \- Could be "gamed" by malicious users who downvote/report even worthwhile posts (which is why I think the system should not outright block users automatically but only rate limit them, and why I think an admin should have the ability to manually approve users for normal posting. Ie, just because someone posts unpopular opinions doesn't mean they're posting spam, and a manual review could accommodate this)

THE WAY FORWARD ==========

The above are only some potential ideas, I'm sure there are others. And I'm sure there are issues that I haven't identified either.

Perhaps the way forward is to look at what can be done:

• short term
• longer term

As what's required right now to stomp the current spammers on the head may not be an long-term optimal solution

@ernest I've noticed this week that I'm currently seeing no visual indication that the boost button is active. No underline, color, or anything. It seems that a now-broken userstyle I'm using expects there to be an "active" class applied to the element, but it isn't anymore. Is that intentional? Figured I should point this out to you in case you don't know already.

\#kbinMeta

While UI tweaks definitely aren't the top development priority as of now, the header currently feels a bit cluttered and unintuitive. When @ernest does get around to improving it, here are a few changes I suggest:

• Add a number next to the All Content tab like the Threads & Microblog tabs do. This would help make what it does much clearer.
• Add a number to the People tab if possible. Right now, it's not at all obvious that this tab depends on the magazine you're on, and giving it a number like the Threads and Microblog tabs would help communciate that.
• Have something I can click to pull up a list of my subscribed magazines and favorited collections. Maybe include that list with the current channel list button (the one that lets you select between All, Subscribed, Moderated, and Favorites).
• Have a notification bell that you can click to see notifications, like what KES does.
• Replace the Magazines & Collections button with a single tab, which could be called "Explore" or "Browse Magazines". I'd combine this with my suggestions in this post: cleaning up the sort options and just having 3 tabs for magazines, abandoned magazines, and collections.

@ernest, I just have a quick question. Looking at the kbin oauth documentation on codeberg and swagger, I got the impression that an authorization client needs to be registered on a server before a user can start using the API. This would be fine if kbin weren't federated, but what if a user wants to sign in to a different instance that doesn't have the oauth client I set up? Basically, I'm asking if there's a way to use the API without setting up the oauth client, but still be able to login to an account. Thanks

\#kbinMeta

@ernest RTR#32 Voting Bug Report:

Wasn't able to upvote, downvote, or boost anything in my sub feed without getting an error.

• Opening a new tab fixed the problem.
• Refreshing the page fixed the problem.
• Going back to previous pages and then returning did not fix the problem.

\#kbinMeta

@ernest I'm trying to reply to a federated toot and the add comment button changes to "sending" for a while then comes back without posting anything.

https://kbin.social/m/random/p/3447135/Maybe-someone-well-intentioned-once-thought-we-could-make-Portland-into

Anything more I can do? this problem has happened before but I can't figure out when/why

\#kbinMeta

Here are mine! A handful of things come to mind right away, but there are plenty more:

⭐ The admin @ernest is an incredibly hardworking, kind, supportive, and an all-around good person. This is my tip top most favorite thing because good leadership and communication is essential to a good and thriving community. Ernest is a star!

⭐ The ability to edit titles!!! This is sooo convenient!

⭐ The ability to customize mags with CSS! I could spend hours doing this, it's so fun! I don't know any other social media site that allows you that level of freedom of customization. It really makes it feel more personal. All my mags are decked out :3

⭐ I enjoy making scripts/styles for kbin. kbin is the reason I began learning JS, HTML, and CSS. I am so happy I started learning, and it's all thanks to kbin.

⭐Posts and conversations here are much more GENUINE. It feels like I am interacting with real people, with the goal of socializing just for the sake of socializing, which I don't get elsewhere. Everywhere else it's a competition to say the wittiest thing and get the most likes/upvotes.

⭐ No malicious, tricky, over-calculated algorithm. It's very straight-forward and honest here. I love seeing a mix of upvoted/downvoted comments in comment sections too, rather than just top upvoted, because it makes me feel more apart of the conversation with everyone. Your contributions and thoughts won't get drowned out by upvoted witty remarks, that is truly unique to kbin (and maybe elsewhere on the fediverse?).

⭐ kbin gives me the urge to contribute, interact, and create because our contributions have actual impact. Can't say the same for other sites. Everywhere else is lurk only.

⭐ Tightknit but welcoming. kbin is small enough that I run into familiar people all the time, and I recognize usernames everywhere.

⭐ Authenticity. kbin is authentic and real. It's not pushing a product, not manipulating what you see, not building an ad profile. It is what a forum should be.

That only scratches the surface! How about you guys? If you guys share the same favorite things as me, I would love to hear your thoughts on why.

(i also posted this here)

@ernest -- As requested by RTR#32, I got an error upvoting a thread.

Details:

Approximately 2023-12-04 20:50 UTC

Thread link on kbin: https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/678410/Physicists-May-Have-Found-a-Hard-Limit-on-The-Performance

URL when error was shown: https://kbin.social/ef/678410?choice=1

Let me know if there's any other details you need.

\#kbinMeta

@ernest I tried to upvote this post and got an error. P.S. This happened just a few minutes ago. Edit: I tried it again and it seems fixed.

\#kbinMeta

Over the last few days, there's been an increasing problem with spam accounts from lemmy.blahaj.zone. It seems like they're working on addressing this issue, at least in a one-at-a-time fashion, but it's clear that they have not been able to proactively prevent the problem yet.

Of specific note, these accounts are posting links to offensive images. kbin.social doesn't display these images inline (at least not for me), which is nice, but the fact that they're being posted anywhere feels like a liability concern for kbin.social could be raised.

I don't pretend to know what can or should be done to address this. I just wanted to bring it up, because @ernest should know about it.

Reference:

https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/675827/Here-s-another-spam-account

@ernest Is there currently a way to see threads boosted by followed users as a #kbin user? If not, is that something you're planning to add eventually?

\#kbinMeta

@Ernest has pushed an update which allows users to request ownership/moderation of abandoned magazines. Ghost/abandoned magazines were fairly prevalent after the initial wave of hype due to users either squatting magazine names or becoming inactive for other reasons. Now is your chance to get involved, if you were waiting to do so.

To request ownership/moderator privileges, scroll down to where it says "MODERATORS" in the sidebar. There will be an icon of a hand pointing upwards that you can click on, then make the request. Cheers, and thank you for your hard work Ernest, as well as future mods.

Ive spent the last week in shock at the lack of moderation because magazines and federated stuff is only moderated by @ernest who I know is busy with development. But the magazines that are on kbin.social and were setup as "Template" magazines are getting trashed either with spam/porn or toxic comments that were reported long before they were removed. just today tech, open-source has porn on it .

Like I said I get you are busy so maybe delegate it to some people that can look after the place ? Whilst you work on kbin.

I've submitted the second to last #kbin #API PR for review! This PR adds thread and thread comment retrieval, creation, deletion, editing, voting, reporting, and moderation functionality to the API! The last PR will be very similar to this one, except for microblogs!

> > > Didn't you have the API 'complete' like 2 months ago? > >

Yes, but it did not have any tests written to verify that it worked. These PRs have been resolving that issue so that there can be at least some guarantees that the API works when it gets onto kbin.social and others

(Also, please remember to buy @ernest a coffee if you are able, he's been burning the candle at both ends to support kbin.social and deal with personal business)

\#kbinMeta

Hi all,

I'm posting this to see if there's any interest in a Moderators Union magazine / community here on kbin. The purpose of this community would be to create a support network between moderators. Ideally this community would be a place to network, generate cross-community support, identify the best techniques for helping communities grow, and identify improvements in the Kbin software to help the mod teams thrive.

As constant users of the software, we have a view, particularly on a Quality Assurance level, that could be very helpful to @ernest and the development team - one that most standard users don't. As such, it's my hope that a community for moderators would help strengthen both the kbin community as well as its technological capability.

From what I can tell, there are communities for kbinDesign and kbinDevLog, but nothing yet for mods.

That being said, I wanted to gauge interest here on kbinMeta before creating such a magazine, and to see if there's already a space here that I've missed where such conversations take place. Your thoughts and commentary are more than welcome, and if someone just decides to start one up, please post it here so I can sub.

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

So this has happened on a couple of my posts, but when I saw it affecting @gabe's recent intro post, I thought I'd call it out here.

Here's a screenshot - first image is of how the post looks when you're not logged in, the second is with login:

https://imgur.com/a/lRMP9yf

You can see even though there's two comments listed as being present on the 2nd shot, no comments appear.

So to determine whether this was client side or server side, I tested it out on multiple browsers and got the same result, indicating it's not a client side issue, and it's not related to my kbin extension scripts on Firefox. I can't find any settings within my profile that would affect this (if there's one I'm missing, please let me know).

For reference, here are the two of my posts that I'm finding the same behavior on:

https://kbin.social/m/13thFloor/t/332463/Untitled-by-at-Aphelion-at-mastodon-sdf-org

https://kbin.social/m/13thFloor/t/329335/Untitled-by-at-literarypug-at-mastodon-world

Thanks in advance for your help - I'd like to be able to both promote content and leave a review at the same time, but this bug is making it difficult. Note that this only appears to affect Threads, not Links at the moment.

EDIT: appears to affect Pictures as well, and is currently occurring on this post below. Gonna add @ernest so he has a heads up.

Additional testing shows that it's only affecting newer posts - posts older than two days ago don't appear to be replicating the behavior.