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This whole "kill the rich" thing is counterproductive and needs to stop. Advocating for murder has never been cool.
I respectfully disagree.
The ultra-rich aren't shy about killing you or your loved ones if it makes them an extra million. There are exceptions, but they're definitely not the rule.
Tit for tat. We're absolutely in a class war and the owner class has been winning for three or four consecutive decades. The inequality in society was lower during the French revolution than it is now. Hell, the pay Scrooge gave out in the old tale was more than minimum wage is today adjusted for inflation.
I'm not saying we need violence, but I am saying we need the threat of violence for these kind of people to do their part. No one needs a billion dollars, let alone a trillion.
I also respectfully disagree. Tit for tat, taken to its logical conclusion, eradicates all life on the planet; if that's your goal, fine, you can make that argument, but that's ultimately a separate discussion. There were literal slaves and serfs around the time of the French Revolution---now you could make an argument that "wage slaves" or whatever exist in the first world, but that is pure abstraction when compared to the absolute widespread human suffering in France during the late 1700s. You would have to be entirely disconnected from reality to think that people, en masse, have it worse in first world countries than they did in France during the 1700s; that's a "log off" moment, for sure. If you want to expand the scope to the world at large, then, yeah, there is some fucked up stuff going on, and people (millionaires, billionaires, &c. &c.) do hoard wealth, but murdering them is not the solution; that won't even do anything to their accumulated wealth, as most of it is tied up in corporate assets; instead, harsh regulation needs to be enacted on the system that allows these people to accumulate obscene amounts of wealth. But instead, we have these very surface level takes that are just like "kill the billionaires", which solves nothing and actually makes our side look insane, which hurts our cause—frankly, its stupid. Now, if you want to alter the claim to "the threat of violence is needed," then I would be more inclined to agree; however, individually murdering certain billionaires is not productive; I don't know about you, but I don't want to match whatever vitriolic bullshit eye for an eye sentiment that these billionaires might have, and maybe that's an idealistic take and naive, but it feels right.
have it worse in first world countries than they did in France during the 1700s
In absolute terms? Definitely not. The lowliest "unskilled" worker today has vastly more amenities than even a 17th century nobleman could even dream of.
In relative terms, however? The ultra-rich robbed you, me and every single other person on this planet. And to this you may retort that you do not care about wealth and are content with what you have. I would applaud such an answer, but it would be besides the point. What we've been systematically robbed of, is our time. Years, decades that could be spent enjoying your lives with our loved ones, instead spent slaving away at a desk or in a factory only to make the few who have everything even more. That, to me, is absolutely unforgivable, especially since I've long since past my physical prime and am still being robbed of this time against my will.
Now, if you want to alter the claim to “the threat of violence is needed,” then I would be more inclined to agree; however, individually murdering certain billionaires is not productive;
Again, I disagree. There are about ~2700 billionaires on earth out of ~8 billion people. Killing half of them and having that wealth redistributed would solve more problems than it would create. But if I do that, I'm thinking like said billionaires.
Which is the only way to fight them. If you try the moral and legal route, you won't stand a chance because you'll be fighting within systems and rulesets they have created to give themselves every (unfair) benefit.
Sometimes the disgruntled worker who shanks the boss is the hero we need.
Very idealistic to think that the redistribution of all that money wouldn't just cause mass inflation! Also, mot of the money is tied up in companies. They don't just have the money lying around. There would be no one to buy all these assets. I get the sentiment, that they make money from the work of their employees. At some point companies become to big to fail but when someone is starting a business the personal risks and investment someone takes to grow a company also should be respected.
We don't produce nearly enough for everyone to be get fully all the things they rely on while barely anyone works. Thats not how the economy would end up working. We need a social safety net, so no complete free market which is toxic but as much as I dislike some billionaires your proposal is just not realistic and fantizises violence without accomplishing anything
"killing half the billionaires and redistributing their wealth"
Are we on the same planet right now? How are you going to do that? And if you kill them, how are you to ensure their wealth is redistributed properly, not just funneled back into their corporate shell company or their equally immoral families? The measure you're proposing here requires a total overhaul of the system that is more unrealistic than a measured overhaul into more overall socialist systems of general wealth redistribution. I get that billionaires do harm to the planet and I get that that makes you, me, angry. but what you're proposing here is just straight up murder and it's unrealistic; It's even more unrealistic than, say, everybody voting for a socialist and the systems entirely overhauled except you are adding extra steps of just killing all the billionaires on top of it. What I'm ultimately concerned about is the left going online and just saying kill billionaires while sitting in front of their computers doing literally nothing, making all of us look like psychopaths thus hurting our cause due to clear and obvious LARPing.
but it's obvious to me that I'm not going to change your mind. you can sit around and LARP on Lemmy all day, if you want, that's fine. Ultimately, in an hour, I won't care that we even had his conversation. I'm not going to change your mind, so this is going to be my last post regarding this subject, because I'm not going to change anybody's mind on a far left leaning Lemmy community. I'm sorry I even posted my opinion.
I just wanted to say thank you for voicing a clear, coherent rebuttal of the knee-jerk, emotional "kill 'em" reactions we see so much. You're right that most who post that sort of thing are LARPing, and I really hope it's just a way to let off steam, but I worry that someone might try to carry out the threat, and do incalculable harm to the left in the process.
Despite the downvotes, you are correct.
It’s asinine to even consider that a billionaire doesn’t have a will, let alone how awful it is to threaten a life.
They’d just be dealing with a younger, more entitled billionaire, who now wants to get revenge on the people that murdered their parent or benefactor. See Lachlan Murdoch, Charles Koch, any of the Waltons, etc. for example.
You're being empathic towards people who have no empathy for you.
How is recognizing the financial failsafes of billionaires empathetic? I’m employing logic.
Did you miss the entire point of my comment because I also condemned taking a life?
People are killed daily not so indirectly by billionaires. Overpriced medicine, Military industry, Unhealthy products, Monopolization of water and other resources and land, poisoning ground water with industrial waste, unsafe work conditions, the list is endless.
There is almost no billionaire that isnt responsible for someones death and in a moral world they would be in prison. So morals are already completely out of the window.
Not every billionaire built their life doing something unethical. Killing them wouldn't make you any better. People also fuel monopolies out of convenience even if they have a choice to act ethical. We should strive for legislative change. The billionaire might be the owner of parts of a company, but we as a society use the services for our daily lives. What economic system that actually works also supports free ideas, innovation and the willingness to perform other than something based on capitalism (Communism never worked and doesn't reward it properly). Treating symptoms won't treat the cause. We need legislative change.
If you were a slave and I was your master, would killing me be murder?
...yes? But, as all people and legal systems agree, there are times when murder is legal and endorsed.
Such as in wartime. And this is war, but most people are far too blind to see this.
Are you a literal slave? If you play with meaning, you can turn everyone into a slave and kill everyone. Is that what you want?
Are you a vegetarian? Just curious.
vegan, actually.
There ya go. Carry on then.
I respect life? sorry?
They intended to "gotcha" but you dodged.
It would have been a self-gotcha. But since they're consistent - as you were.
I know what you were trying to do, and I understand your sentiment. However, ultimately, personal consistency doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, right? If I smoke cigarettes, I can still tell people not to smoke, right? My smoking doesn't undermine the science or the message. However, my concern is that this "KILL THE RICH" platitude has been so adopted by the online left that it's making us look, as a whole, like psychopaths; and, considering that, it's now beyond "individual consistency" and more in the territory of "stupid zeitgeist" that does more harm than good. Honestly, what I see right now is a bunch of LARPers that make the left look crazy, and I feel like, ultimately, that's harmful. The fact that I get so many downvotes is just kinda a reinforcement of this impression, as well. It's a sad time to be alive when widespread murder is the political chant, in any day/age... lest we become the monster, and all that. That's all.
However, ultimately, personal consistency doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, right? If I smoke cigarettes, I can still tell people not to smoke, right?
You can tell people not to smoke but you'd be a hypocrite then. If a hypocrite is telling you not to do something they're doing - that's worthless.
You're saying: Take no violent action against those destroying the planet because we should respect all life. And you're vegan. So that consistency bolsters your message, downvoted though it may be.
I prefer "eat the rich" as a metaphor for seizing their assets, not a literal endorsement of cannibalism. I'm actually surprised how many people literally mean "kill the rich". Are you guys actual sociopaths?
I’m actually surprised (not really) how many people can come this close to getting it, but still be so desperate to follow the rules they've set (E: where they can directly and indirectly kill millions a year for profit with impunity, but we're not allowed to even say nasty things about them, never mind plan to fight back against them, without being considered dangerous terrorists), that you manage to convince yourself billionaires will just freely and willingly give over those assets and all of the power that comes with them one day once we've asked nicely enough.. 🙄
I don't think asset seizure going to be easy, but it's going to be significantly more effective and safer for everyone than staging a new French Revolution.
If you're truly advocating for murder on the internet (are you?), I don't think there's any point in trying to change your mind. I'm not "this close" to getting it — I already got it and rejected it.
OK why don't you go kill some billionaires then, instead of just fantasizing about it on the internet? Good luck and godspeed.
I suspect this happens far more than you think. They just have amazing security details.
Nah, some of us just see that they buy the elections so that we can't vote for change. And they buy the judges so we can't sue for change. And they buy the media so we can't speak for change. So now we're exploring the extremely distasteful option because all other avenues for change have been blocked
Lots of folks here are 100% for violence against anyone they disagree with.
Yeah, I've been finding myself arguing with zealots more and more on Lemmy. This is really not a healthy community. I hope it's some form of keyboard warrior syndrome and not the way these people behave in the real world.
almost tempted to make an alt account and then post a thread in the politics community titled something like, "planning to k*ll B!ll g@tes; any help would be appreciated" (i would work on the title to make it believable, of course). but you know what would happen; i would get banned. because this whole "k!ll the rich" thing is performative, i.e. misguided virtue signalling. and it's all very very immature.
Nah man. I know cool.
I'll take some of your money then, I'm sure you won't mind considering how well-off you are (and how blind you are to those of us less fortunate). Oh, you don't want me to do that? If only there was some system, some measure of equality, some safety from poverty, a safety net for those that got dealt a shit hand and are juuuuust treading water... while fuckwads buy their second Bugatti this month.
So for now, off with their heads. A few rolling away and they will come up with something real quick.