Conservative @sh.itjust.works MomoTimeToDie @sh.itjust.works 1y ago

Is lemmy just going to become reddit 2.0?

The more I use lemmy, the more it begins to just feel like all the same problems reddit had. It has the same problems with major communities having far left moderation standards that only apply to the right, the same hive mind users that just spam the same tired out leftist talking points over and over while refusing anything close to an actual discussion.

The only upsides are that downvotes aren't used to punish you site wide, and the handful of non-leftist instances that exist, though they always end up defederated by all the major instances, effectively making them poor spaces for general discussion.

So what are your thoughts? Is this just the "more like under new management" from megamind? Is there hope for it to become a decent platform for everyone, not just the left?

Edit: yeah, it's just as bad. Fuck the retarded admins and fuck the left

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My opinion is that there are a lot of far left people here, that part is true. I consider myself a socialist, but not so far left that I can't criticize Russia, China or North Korea that some here seem to be.

The only right-wing instance that has been defederated was exploding-heads.com. I was part of that discussion, I voted to defederate and I would do it again. It was nothing to do with their politics for me, it was all about the hate speech. The posts there specifically calling for the death of trans people, holocaust denial and other big red lines for me was why I wanted the defederation to happen.

A conservative who acknowledges that minorities have human rights and that historical events really happened is absolutely A-ok in my book. We might not agree on our politics, but it's still a conversation worth having.
- The only right-wing instance that has been defederated was exploding-heads.com. I was part of that discussion, I voted to defederate and I would do it again
  
  True. This instance is one of the better ones in terms of defederation, but unfortunately we don't seem to be very popular in that stance. And given the nature of social media where ability to access content is a major factor, the more large instances that defederate, the worse the system as a whole gets in terms of ability to access that content.
  
  Personally, I support a zero defederation policy, and also have accounts on those types of instances, but they're heavily blocked by major instances, hence why I'm still here as well. I'm excited for when better apps come out for managing multiple accounts. It's pretty annoying to have a bunch of web apps to use each different login whenever I end up going somewhere that doesn't have federation.
  
  A conservative who acknowledges that minorities have human rights and that historical events really happened is absolutely A-ok in my book. We might not agree on our politics, but it’s still a conversation worth having
  
  I find that vanishingly few actual people (major media agitators aren't in my books) actually hold the genuine belief that minorities don't have rights, or aren't deserving of them. It's just that a lot of what progressives call rights isn't a perspective shared by much of the conservative side of things, where you'll generally find a more limited "life, liberty, property" set of beliefs, or at least derivative thereof.
  
  Personally, I support a zero defederation policy
  
  That is an untenable position imho. I hate to use the tired old trope of the nazi bar, but a true free speech approach has been tried over and over again, and each and every time has resulted in the worst drek imaginable, and everybody who wasn't ok with that sort of drek leaving. Having a community worth having a discussion in requires moderation, and that extends to federated platforms too.
  
  I find that vanishingly few actual people (major media agitators aren’t in my books) actually hold the genuine belief that minorities don’t have rights, or aren’t deserving of them
  
  That isn't true from my own very subjective experiences. Quite a few don't even consider select minorities (different ones depending on region) are even fully human.
  
  Of course that is not universal. My own father is a conservative, and we have many a long and interesting discussion. Those people do exist, but so do those who think of minorities as sub-human.
  
  Forgive the double commenting, lemmy doesn't save drafts, and I don't like losing partial comments while I close tabs.
  
  That isn’t true from my own very subjective experiences. Quite a few don’t even consider select minorities (different ones depending on region) are even fully human
  
  Could you give more concrete examples? I'm not particularly interested in defending (or not) the hypothetical someone, somewhere who holds some belief.
  
  Sure! I'm Romanian, and Roma are very much discriminated against here. I have had a religious, conservative acquaintance tell me, completely straight-faced and honestly, that the targeting of Jews in the Romanian holocaust was terrible, we should have just stuck to killing as many Roma as possible. They are, according to him, completely impossible to "civilize".
  
  This is not an uncommon belief here.
  
  EDIT: Let me be completely clear: I'm not saying you hold beliefs like that. I'm just saying "conservative" is a broad brush that includes both the reasonable and the terrible.
  
  Eastern European politics be wildin' lol. I'm American and was approaching it from a more American perspective, where such talk is uncommonly found, despite being commonly accused.
  
  EDIT: Let me be completely clear: I’m not saying you hold beliefs like that. I’m just saying “conservative” is a broad brush that includes both the reasonable and the terrible
  
  Agreed. In general, I'm not a fan of the relative style of political labeling because it varies so broadly over time and place since the ideas of "conservative" and "progressive" are highly dependent on the existing culture and systems of a place.
  
  I'm perfectly fine with individual communities enforcing their own moderation policies, and individual users taking advantage of the plenty strong blocking tools at their disposal. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if people are already working on the equivalent of chain block from Twitter for lemmy already.
  
  But at the level of federation, it represents basic fucking functionality of the site, and it should only be leveraged as a tool against things lot bot farms or the like. Why should the users who cry for moderation the moment a single thing they don't like shows up need to run the ship? We should go back to the days of just telling them to not browse content they don't want to browse, and to grow the fuck up.
  
  If a jew is considering joining, and the first thing they see is a holocaust denial post on All + New, they won't join.
  
  Similarly, if a trans user is considering joining and they see a post calling for their death, they won't join.
  
  Eventually, this whittles down the users over the very long term to only those users that are ok with that. This isn't about "a single thing they don't like". It's acceptance of hate speech. I hope you can understand the difference. I myself am half Jewish, and if I felt like I was surrounded by anti-semites, I'd just pick up and leave.
  
  Again, I do hope you can understand the difference between an unpopular opinion and hate speech.
  
  Again, I do hope you can understand the difference between an unpopular opinion and hate speech
  
  Yes. That said, I don't believe the mindset of just avoiding entire platforms because of a few bad posts is a good one, and don't do it myself.
  
  The heavy defederated instance was better in terms of federation or did I read this wrong? What's this post have to do with conservatism anyways? Greavence politics is annoying I'm sure if you didn't lead with it in discussions you would get better engagement.
  
  To me a good amount of your posts I come across seem like rage bait and that's fine but not productive. I like talking with you, when we talk I feel like it's generally a constructive conversation once ground rules get set and we are taking about the same issue. So I'm pretty convinced you are a real person and not a troll.
  
  I pretty much tried to say the same thing as this on exploding heads a month ago to my friend wiggles and was immediately banned for wrong think so I donno. Pretty sure he abuses children anyways not like he even denies it or tries to hide it... Go try presenting as anything not far right on EH and see how quickly the ban hammer comes down.
  
  Anyways you can check federation on both sides here... https://federation-checker.vercel.app/
  
  The heavy defederated instance was better in terms of federation or did I read this wrong
  
  My bad if I wrote it vaguely, I meant that this instance is good in terms of generally being federated by other instances and having minimal defederations from our end.
  
  What’s this post have to do with conservatism anyways
  
  I was hoping for some general discussion on the topic since a lot of people are here from reddit. Reddit had a pretty strong bias against anything right wing, both in terms of community opinions, and in terms of admin actions, and I wanted to see other people's opinions on if lemmy was heading in the same direction to effectively be the exact same shit as reddit, just different management. We definitely aren't there yet, but given the general way things are going here, I wouldn't be surprised if we got there within a year or two.
  
  The reason I think it merits discussion is that I find the tendency towards online echo chambers to be a troubling direction for the internet, and I hoped that federated spaces could alleviate the issue to some extent. Like yeah, I can always just hop between places like this and exploding heads, but hopping between opposing echo chambers isn't exactly good discussion.
  
  Greavence politics is annoying I’m sure if you didn’t lead with it in discussions you would get better engagement.
  
  Unless we're operating under an extremely broad definition of greavance politics such that anything anyone expresses dissent towards counts, I wouldn't generally consider my comments to be greavance politics, at least any more than what my counterparts on the left post 24/7 on this instance. And personally, I don't see any need to censor myself to appease people unwilling to do the same.
  
  I like talking with you, when we talk I feel like it’s generally a constructive conversation once ground rules get set and we are taking about the same issue. So I’m pretty convinced you are a real person and not a troll.
  
  I'm on sites like this primarily for my own personal enjoyment, so when someone is actually interested in having genuine discussion, I'm all for it. But I'm not here to be a teacher or whatever, so when all the worthless rats crawl out of the woodwork to spam "muh fascism" or whatever other buzzwords they've been fed by CNN, take your pick from almost every other comment in this post, I have no interest in trying to reason them out of a position that wasn't reached through reason. Because frankly, the last thing I want is for social media to feel like a job.
  
  thanks I read it wrong I guess.
  
  I think part of this is the right gravitated to echo chambers. Like truth and parlor or the .win sites. Honestly most the things from the "right"(I guess?) Seem like trolls and I'm pretty sure most the accounts are you excluded. Or weird reactionarys probably the most annoying political group... I wish the right would just disown them like the qtards they are pretty annoying and dumb.
  
  it's more like you make any statement related or not and get a "what about hunters laptop" on an unrelated topic about Killary from 8 years ago. I'm sure you know the feeling from your side/types of conversations. Everything is oppressing or censoring me when I say insane off topic rage bait things etc. I could find examples but mostly it just results in someone spamming reports in the community I moderate if I push back at all. It's annoying and unproductive not a way to build bridges or win hearts and minds.
  
  no comment on that one see number 3 😊.
  
  Anyways hope you are having a good day. I was just confused on the EH being more federated statement and trying to sort of stand up for you. Echo chamber = bad.
  
  I think part of this is the right gravitated to echo chambers
  
  I mean yeah, but not particularly as a first choice. Reddit has long been hostile to the right, and frequently would ban users and communities that didn't fall in line with the approved narrative, and reddit was really the major platform where most people went for content in that part of social media, so alternatives were naturally people who had a reason to not be on reddit, which up until this month and the api disaster, was almost exclusively just being right wing.
  
  Seem like trolls and I’m pretty sure most the accounts are you excluded.
  
  Sorry, this sentence doesn't parse for me. Like, I get all the words, but they don't come together to one coherent meaning when I read it. Can you rephrase?
  
  I wish the right would just disown them like the qtards they are pretty annoying and dumb.
  
  And how often would you personally be voting for right wing candidates if this happened? Would you be out campaigning for DeSantis if he focused his efforts on trying to purge wrong think from the party? If not, it just seems stupid to intentionally burn bridges with voters at the behest of people who oppose the right regardless.
  
  it’s more like you make any statement related or not and get a “what about hunters laptop” on an unrelated topic about Killary from 8 years ago
  
  As far as I can recall, all my participation here has been pretty solidly on topic and relevant to the post at hand. Like yeah, there's plenty of people on both sides who do this shit and it's annoying as hell, but it's hardly in either of our control so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
  
  I don't really know I miss reddit when it wasn't filled with policies and weird flame wars. I mostly went on reddit to read crazy people like the gangstalking reddit or weird obscure drug communities, or the qtards in tga before they got banned for posting Csam(to save the children...) and NCD after the war started... Isn't spez a libertarian who lives in a missile silo?(living the dream...) Really don't have much to say on reddit politics outside of it's annoying and unavoidable. I never even had a verified reddit account I only used the account for lurking private communities.
  
  example of a troll and probably not a real person would be theblackconservitive user on this server. People like that are annoying as hell. I'm pretty sure he's not American black or a conservative and never voted for Trump. Just here to sow division as part of some fun global psyop. Pretty sure you are a real person with original thoughts etc...
  
  I used to primary with the Republicans up until trump steered the party off a cliff. Before that I was a pretty solid libertarian or Republican voter in general elections. Usually picked the "best person" like Gary Johnson in 2016... But being constantly called a far leftists when I have any bad think made me decide not to associate with the authoritarian party... Honestly the whole field of them currently are bootlickers and grifters it would be interesting(funny) if I didn't have to live here and it didn't directly impact my life. I don't really hold any party in high regard currently... if anything the last few years helped me find solidarity with anti authoritarian people both left and right, people generally have the same end goals and argue over the starting line. The Koch brothers really did a number to the gold and black...
  
  Remember "take the guns first due process later" = strong on protecting gun rights 😂. The double think is weird and I'm sure I also do it like every human.
  
  yeah your like an actual human worth engagement with. Like I'm sure in real life we would actually get along pretty well. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
  
  Reddit always had political stuff, but it really only became the forefront of everything around 2016. That said, it was always a bit slanted.
  
  I really don't know if it's spez who really pushed it to be shit, or any of the other people who have some power at reddit, but they've been pushing discourse solidly leftward for a while now. They still have to pretend to be at least vaguely neutral to prevent reddit (as a company) from nosediving, but they've gradually been using the rules as a weapon against the right through uneven enforcement. Remember, r/nonewnormal was banned because users also sometimes participated on other subreddits (ie the natural way people use reddit), and this was considered brigading. On the other hand, subreddits literally dedicated to nothing but brigading like r/subredditdrama get by with simply saying "don't brigade" while their users do it constantly.
  
  I might just be an extremely complex network of bots. Beep boop
  
  Thats fair. The reason I asked is because the overwhelming majority of the people I find talking about how this or that group needs to clean house would never have voted for them anyway, and it's just an excuse to avoid discussing policy.
  
  Personally, I treat voting as a strategic thing. I don't particularly care who I'm voting for most of the time, or what they believe, but mostly just how they're going to cast their votes in congress or how far they'll abuse executive powers. Not particularly a fan of either big party, but at least the Republicans have been getting a few things right recently, primarily with court appointments and reliably killing basically everything in congress
  
  honestly I kind of used reddit for my own stuff I ignored most of it. Nnn was where tga went after they got banned it was less fun to read so I didn't keep up. TGA was just so insane even the .win for them and 8koon seem tame with less insane rambling. The main draw to reddit was insane rambling for me. And tech/obscure drug communities(and even those attracted bitching about culture war near the end of my time) or went totally private. I'm (gasp) pro-modernia vaccine; The only one that worked as advertised... The nnn people (and everyone else) dragged covid on so much longer than needed. It should of never even gotten to the point it was a pandemic or endemic. It's fucking sars not some magic new thing. The media reporting didn't help. The whole situation is/was a mess...
  
  beep bop be nice 😂🙂😂 pretty sure you are a red blooded American. You actually responded to mod actions and don't just end up posting porn or whatever to try to get banned... On that I'm hyped to not be a mod starting Friday when I hand things over to the community... Being a mod sucks when I just want to lurk or argue with schizo's not over politics. Everyone reports such trivial stuff.
  
  I will say we really need term limits almost all the elected officials are really old. Like an issue both sides agree with outside the elected officials who have no will to do it. Like drain the swamp but don't refill it with geriatric cronies. And the court system should be apolitical but I guess everyone conveniently forgot that.
  
  In my idealized world both(actually like 3-6) parties would be able to discuss stuff and competently address issues not argue over made up problems to throw red meat to the base.(looking at you both major parties). Like congress trying to learn how the internet works is always an endless source of entertainment.
  
  Well this has been a manifesto work is over I'm going to go make dinner.

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