AI art steals from the poor and has no place in modern society
AI art steals from the poor and has no place in modern society
In a post-scarcity solarpunk future, I could imagine some reasonable uses, but that’s not the world we’re living in yet.
AI art has already poisoned the creative environment. I commissioned an artist for my latest solarpunk novel, and they used AI without telling me. I had to scrap that illustration. Then the next person I tried to hire claimed they could do the work without AI but in fact they could not.
All that is to say, fuck generative AI and fuck capitalism!
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If the AI isn't stealing content, then piracy isn't stealing either.
Piracy isn't since it is making exact copies of yer booty
Would that not mean that AIs aren't stealing either? 🤔
It would undermine the exact point OP is making, but I understand what he means, so that still stands.
Either none of it is stealing or all of it is.
Yes, I'm pro-both. IP only benefits the ultra-rich.
Unlimited IP protections only benefit the rich. If we return copyright back to its original 25 year limit, it would actually benefit the actual artists because the corpos would have to pay artists for new ideas pretty frequently.
I really hope more people start believing this. Our current copyright system has been abused and bought by the rich and screws over both consumers and small artists, but "copyright of any form is terrible" is harmful to artists too.
I don't care if it's harmful to artists. "Artist" is not a real job, it's something you nepo-babies can do in your free time outside of cooking McRibs or mining Lithium like the rest of working class folks.
I've never paid for digital content and I ain't about to start.
This is a joke. It has to be.
"Didn't you know the proletariat is supposed to be miserable?"
Artists aren't proletariat if their job is "artist".
IP protections don't protect anyone but the rich in any form, Disney have been caught selling T-shirts with art outright stolen from small artists online buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo and their only punishment was that they had to stop, no admission of liability and they got to keep all the money they made. Hell the guy who invented the underlying concept behind the TV never saw a penny because a radio company decided that it was their invention and managed to drag it out in courts until the patent expired.
Except when they do protect creators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_v._Home_Depot_USA,_Inc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kearns#Intermittent_wipers
Often times, when an artist get caught with plagiarism, the publisher drops them before it even go to court. After all, why would the publisher pay an "artist" who's not really drawing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnate_(comics)
Who exactly are you talking about with the TV patent? Farnsworth had the patent for the CRT TV and I don't remember ever hearing about a dispute over it. Also, dragging the court battle until the patent expires doesn't mean the offending company wouldn't still be on the hook for past violations. Something about this story doesn't add up.
db0 take
Yes
Exactly, rules restricting training data are the only way the rich can stop open source models benefitting us all so it's kinda suspicious there's a grass roots movement pushing for it...
So don’t strengthen IP laws. Strengthen labor and antitrust laws.
Say: “You can’t use someone’s own creative work to compete against them in the same market”
Creators get a modicum of protection. The power-grab by the ultra-rich faces a major setback. FOSS models keep on truckin.
Say: “You can’t use someone’s own creative work to compete against them in the same market”
So just IP laws then? Also would this not literally ban learning
AI doesn't steal art. It creates new and unique images, it just uses existing art as inspiration... Like what real artist do.
This is a deliberate misunderstanding I have seen repeatedly. They don't mean the AI stole art. They mean the training data used to train the ai stole art and is now being used to lever artists out of the workforce because it's cheaper.
The online scrapers just add whatever can be publicly viewed to their datasets. I fail to see how this is any different from actual artists going on the internet to view art to inspire and influence them. Regardless, what exactly do these artists demand? They can't fight technology and win, this is a futile battle that has been fought and lost many times before. AI art isn't going anywhere, it's here to stay and it'll only get better. No amount of anti-AI posts is going to change this. What exactly is the ultimate goal here?
There was a lot of stuff that could be publicly viewed that was still under copyright or similar. We spent a good 20 years having artists developed and distribute portfolios online to be marketable to firms. And now the firms have essentially taken their work for free, used it in a way that there aren't really any protections against legally speaking, without any warning, and monetized the models to make money. All while cutting those same artists out of jobs because the LLM is cheaper.
The ultimate goal is you don't take something someone made without their knowledge, use it to make profit for you and then tell me to get rekt when I want what I should be entitled to.
These artists aren't a monolith. Most of them aren't even unionised. This tech had a varied history but to most of the public this tech is like a year old. They want protections. They want to continue in the career path they made sacrifices to follow. They want a lot of things but the point is regulation would be a good start.
What is the ultimate goal of Generative AI? Because I don't see a way forward where it's unregulated use will be beneficial with no detriments to the people upon whose work it was built.
When you start getting into the specifics, it becomes way more complicated. How exactly should these AI companies notify people that their content is being used for their model? First of all, they're not actually the ones harvesting the data. That scrapers tend to be independent... so these artists are going after the wrong people, unless you expect the AI company to parse through all the data they use to find the rightful owners of everything and ask for their consent, which isn't really viable, let alone practical. Let's suppose the artists do go after the scrapers, how exactly do they notify people that their content is being used? The content is collected by an algorithm, how are they supposed to reliably identify the rightful owners of content and ask for their consent? Do they just send automatic messages to any email or phone number they find?
How about this, what if an artist is posting their art on a platform, like say for example Reddit, and that platform agrees to allow the data to scraped and used for AI data training? Does the platform company own the data on the platform or the individual artist? If it is the latter, what's stopping platforms from modifying their TOS to just claim ownership of anything posted on their platforms? Again, what is the ultimate goal here?
The point is that while I agree that AI has to be regulated, the criticisms and proposed regulations have to specific and pragmatic for them to mean anything. This general hatred of AI and whining by artists and other groups is just noise. It's just people trying to fight against technology, and as history has shown us before, they will inevitably lose. New technologies have always threatened and displaced well established workers, careers, and industries. For example, lamp lighting used to an actual job, but as the technology improved and light bulbs became a thing, lamplighters became a thing of the past. They tried very hard to resist the change and managed to do so for awhile, but it was a losing battle and they eventually faded away. Economics and technology always win.
That's kind of the key here, these generative AI's are the light bulbs of our era. They've already replaced a bunch of jobs and radically changing entire industries. There's no ultimate goal with them and there's no fighting them. Pandora's box is open and it's not going to close. This new technology is still at it's infancy now, but it's going to rapidly expand, evolve, and adapt to a bunch of different situations. Whle regulations can help guide this freight train of a technology in the right direction, they can't stop something with no brakes. As it gets adopted by more and more people and used in more and more spaces, it's going to alter how we do things kind of like how smartphones or social media did. We have no choice but to evolve with them or else we'll become the new lamplighters.
Receiving stolen property is still a crime. You can't hire an independent contractor to draw you Disney characters and use the IP to make money. That's still illegal.
But that's not what these generative AIs do. They use actual content for training, but all generations are unique... Just like actual art
If you go to college for art you are actively required to use specific licensed learning materials to learn from. They don't just go get random training material off the web and go "draw like this but make it your own". The same principles apply. The AI has no filters. It has no way of determining what is copyright infringement and what isn't. It can't decide what is fair use and what isn't.
But that's specific to universities as institutions, not art as a concept. There are plenty of artists without formal education that got inspiration from the things we saw. We could have a discussion about how internet scrapers get their data, however that's a different conversation. AI art isn't stealing content, it's using existing content (in albeit questionable ways) to generate new and unique content.
The difference between generative AI and human created works is that a human can create something with little to no input whatsoever from someone or something else. Blind/deaf people have created things. The AI cannot create something without its training data and the people who created that data didn't authorise it's use. They get no credit or monitary or otherwise re-imbursement or compensation for the use of their IP. But that IP is being used to make money. How do you not see that as a violation?
Art as a concept is agreed to be only created by human input. We aren't talking about inspiration here because that's not what this is. Because the AI isn't being inspired. Because it can't create anything at all without the training data. It would literally be nothing without it. It would generate nothing without it. You as a human being can create things without input. You don't need to see the work of other artists in order to create something. Therefore, you hone skills using the input of others but you as a person could always put pen to paper or paint to cave wall and simply make something. The AI can't. Therefore the claim that it is creating is wrong.
@atrielienz @SleezyDizasta my opinion is if I, as an artist, can look at publicly posted content and use that to inform my own unique work then why shouldn't an AI be able to? If I try to sell a drawing of bugs bunny, then WB can sue me, but I can sell as many bugs bunny inspired rabbit drawings as I want. That should be the rule for an algorithm too.
Because you as the artist are going to change that to make a unique work within certain legal guidelines. The fact is, the laws have not caught up to regulate this and protect artists.
Additionally though you're not thinking about this the right way. Your work as an artist is copyrighted. Meaning you own it and the right to license it to other entities. You as the artist did not license the use of your work to the company that used it for training data to give a result similar to your work when queried.
There are LLM's that do only use licensed work that they have purchased a license for or the rights to. Getty images is a really good example. But ChatGPT did not license anything. So everything that comes out the other end of a query is tainted by the stolen data or art that went into it.
Look up why the actors guild striked and protested to protect their art and likenesses. And then tell me you don't feel the same way. There's multiple lawsuits going on right now with multiple of these LLM's that have stolen data to use as training material.
A college can't just take your work offline and use it in their curriculum. Neither should an LLM be allowed to do that.
@atrielienz what I'm saying is that if the artwork is viewable in public, I have given the public license to hold that information in their brain and use it to influence their own output.
If a member of the public makes too similar of a replica then I can sue. We do not regulate the intake of public information into human storage/retrieval systems (brains) so why should we do that for synthetic ones?
We should only regulate the output to not reproduce art or an actors likeness etc.
If you go to college for art you are actively required to use specific licensed learning materials to learn from. They don't just go get random training material off the web and go "draw like this but make it your own". The same principles apply. The AI has no filters. It has no way of determining what is copyright infringement and what isn't. It can't decide what is fair use and what isn't.