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They took hostages for a reason, ostensibly to exchange them for something. Hamas doesn't want peace though, so why would they care about a peace plan? Also, as mentioned before, they have released a few already.
They took hostages for a reason, ostensibly to exchange them for something.
Yeah. Human shields. And they're still using them as human shields. Its like terrorist tactics 101 here.
"terrorist" is loaded language
Fine
Hamas fights using plain clothes, blending in with the civilian population and uses irregular and dishonorable tactics, like building military bases inside or under Hospitals to use as a human shield.
Or like how most people would call it, they're fucking terrorists.
If you want a more precise legal terms, perhaps violating Geniva conventions, irregular, human shields, asymmetric. These are people who pretend to be civilians while fighting, while kidnapping civilians to use as shields.
does Israel recognize a Palestinian state? it seems like they own Gaza when they want to treat them like subjects, and they don't when they want to treat them like an opposing state.
Does Hamas was to be treated as a state?
Part of that means telling and training your combatants to wear a uniform, so your enemies at war can tell the difference between civilians and combatants.
Wearing civilian clothes while attacking and killing people is literally a terrorist tactic. You aren't supposed to blend into the crowds and use them as human shields.
so Gaza isn't an independent state?
They certainly don't act like one, not with Hamas as leading them.
That's part of the problem. I think the PLO or PLA might be better leaders for them.
Did you look at the Egyptian peace deal? No one wants Hamas running Gaza anymore. Hamas has failed miserably and even the Muslim countries of Egypt and Qatar include new governments as part of the peace deal.
if Gaza isn't independent then they can't be committing war crimes. it's just regular crime. and Israel collectively punishing the ethnic minority are the ones committing war crimes.
There is no collective punishment, measures aren't being done to punish but to limit the effectiveness of people actively trying to kill them.
If you have to hide behind 'yes what we're doing would be war crimes but technically we're not a nation' then it doesn't really change anything, regardless of what their actions are labelled they must be stopped and Israel is taking the measures it feels are needed to do this while also trying to limit the negative effects to other people caught up in this.
There is no collective punishment, measures aren't being done to punish but to limit the effectiveness of people actively trying to kill them.
destroying homes and hospitals, shutting off critical infrastructure, bombing city blocks is definitely collective punishment.
if hamas built a tunnel under my local hospital, I would not be okay with anyone firing missiles at the hospital.
Uh huh....
As I said before: go talk to a soldier about this stuff. You clearly need someone who has actually dealt with war-time issues to talk with you on some basics. I've done my part at this point, but I can't just baby-sit you all day and secondly, I'm not (and never have been a soldier). I just know a few of them and we've had this discussion before. So all my knowledge is 2nd hand.
There are conventions at war, and even the dumbest grunt Private First Class receives training on these matters and have to study up on these issues (every soldier in the US Military is trained to know when, or when not, it is legal to shoot and kill). So this is something that literally any veteran in your life can discuss with you to a far deeper level than I can.
"War crimes" aren't crimes because some police officer will catch you. "War crimes" are actions unbecoming of a proper organization and cause the enemy to harm your side even more. Ex: hiding a gun on your person while surrendering, and then killing enemies with it after pretending to surrender is a war crime. Its not "illegal" per se (there's no organization who will arrest you). It just causes the enemy to refuse surrenders and harms the overall path of the war.
so gaza is an independent country?
It just causes the enemy to refuse surrenders
no, it doesn't CAUSE this. it is an excuse that they will use to kill people who are surrendering, even if it's the hostages they claim they are trying to free.
firing on a hospital is indefensible.
Unless they store military command centers in the Hospital.
even then.
Legally speaking, it ceases to be a Hospital the moment military command is happening there. Yeah, people are being treated, but if there's a legitimate military target, its a military target and no longer a Hospital.
Don't like it? Then get the United Nations to write a new Geneva Convention. Rules are rules.
That's why its incredibly important to keep civilians and military separated. US Builds a Military base over here, far away from civilians, to make everyone 100% clear what is, or isn't, a legitimate target. Uniforms, etc. etc. all play a role in this.
Rules are rules.
it's immoral whether you think the rules say it's ok or not.
Then get the United Nations to write a new Geneva Convention.
what's the point? israel ignores them anyway.
Cool. So we have a conflict where everyone ignores the conventions. As what's going on right now. Glad we're on the same page here.
Methinks that will do worse for Gaza though. Hamas was in a position where they should have followed the conventions more, for the protection of their own civilians.
Hamas is a political party. does likud wear plain clothes?
We literally have footage of Oct 7th with Hamas's soldiers attacking and taking hostages and what they were wearing.
They absolutely violate the dress codes of war.
so Gaza is an independent state?