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I do this with traffic. People edge their cars forward and I'll just sit there.
Where are you going? The light isn't any less red.
Where am I going? To make room for people trying to clear the intersection behind me. Failing to pull forward means they're either stuck on the far side for another cycle of the light or they're going to block the intersection. With really busy intersections leaving those big gaps can make a huge impact on traffic trying to get through the one behind you.
Even more fundamental than signal cycles, you’re moving out of the way for people still driving forward behind you. Creating gaps in traffic is what causes spontaneous traffic jams behind you that can last for hours.
The problem with this is if it's a long enough line, there could be a persom trying to get into a turning lane and they can't because you have a big ass gap between you and the car in front. That means the person could miss their light because they can't get over.
It's fine if you look behind you and you're not cutting someone off from a light or turning.
If I can’t get in the turning lane I’m sitting behind the last person who is, most people in my state recognize this as totally fine and will deal with the lane blockage
I agree. I try to keep my situational awareness at very high levels while I'm behind the wheel, so in high density traffic, I'm looking for issues exactly like you describe. I'll move if there's enough room to move into and I see something that might be solved simply by moving (or I'm unable to rule out that it won't help, due to being unable to see enough).
This is a real pain in the ass if you drive manual:
Auto cars relax pressure on brake pedal to inch forward;
Manual cars take foot off brake, drop clutch, engage gear, engage clutch, move forward, drop clutch and engage brake again, gear to neutral, foot off clutch.
I'm sure all this inching forward happened a lot less when most cars were manual (Europe).
Idk if it's ok to do but I've always just: keep it in first and clutch + brake -> bite on the clutch and swap to accelerator a smidge to move forward in traffic. Doesn't bother me much tbh but I've never driven an automatic so idk if I'm missing out.
I'm also a MT driver. I've driven my fair share of AT's though. With an AT, it's always pushing forward, so the brake is actually working against the idle force of the engine, so simply releasing the brake causes forward movement.
I too sit at most lights while standing on the clutch and brake while in first. It's the MT "ready to go" stance to me. For very long lights, I'll kick it into neutral and take my foot off the clutch, but for the most part, in active traffic, I'll just stand on it, because the light usually isn't long enough for me to reposition that much...
It's far easier to do as you say, as a veteran of MT driving, newbies will struggle, as they do. To be fair, I'd do the same as you, but I'm still very pragmatic about when I do it.
Yeah it's definitely a different kettle of fish when you're on a hill in traffic and swapping to the handbrake constantly, I think that's where newbies really struggle.
I've only been driving since 2012 so I wouldn't call myself a veteran since I know a few delivery drivers and the difference in experience is unreal lol
That's probably around when I got behind the wheel of my first standard, and I've driven a MT car as my main, daily driver, ever since. And I drive most days for at least 30 minutes a day any day I drive.
You're probably better than you give yourself credit for. By no means am I a perfect MT driver, but I can definitely drive manual very adequately, at least as well as I can drive an AT vehicle, which is what I learned on in the mid 2000's. I had the benefit of 5+ years of driving before I started with a MT vehicle, then drove nothing but manual for over 10 years.
15 years of driving + 10 of that being on a manual, means I'm very much not new at it.
Do you generally prefer a manual then? I had a big gap because I was banned from driving due to health issues and a couple years on top without a car so I wouldn't say I'm fully seasoned but I definitely know what I'm doing. At least enough to have some bad habits lol!
Generally, yes. Manual has a lot of advantages IMO. One notable disadvantage is starting on an uphill like you've mentioned.
For me, it makes me more concentious. I'm paying more attention to my speed, to the people around me, and what's going on with my car. Some things are a bit more annoying, like stop and go situations, but not unreasonably more irritating than an AT, and usually fairly rare.
The most common and most troubling situation that I find myself in, living next to a fairly large hill in the landscape (about a 15% grade or so, for about 50-90m of elevation), is when people go up hills unreasonably slowly. My MT isn't powerful, it's a 4cyl 2012 civic (1.5? L engine IIRC), so to get the torque required to scale the hill, I'm already downshifted, and I need to maintain a certain level of RPMs to keep in the power band, which means I need to maintain speed going up the hill to successfully get up the hill. Accelerating is difficult, so I'd rather start at a healthy speed and RPM (in or near the power band), and maintain that condition until I'm at the top of the hill. When people drive slowly up the hill, or slow down while ascending, or even stop on the hill (oh god no), I get worried that even while downshifting, I'll lose enough speed that my only viable option to continue is to stop, go back to first and try again, and if there's people behind me, it's very likely they won't understand what's happening, pull up too closely, and not give me enough room to drift while I get going.... Cue the handbrake trick. I suck at heel/toe pedal work, so I don't really have another viable option, and if it's slippery (wet/snow/slush/ice), it would require me to turn around and go back down, then try the hill again with (hopefully) fewer other cars in my way, so I can maintain enough speed to climb the hill successfully.
This has happened. It's rare, and bothersome, but it doesn't push me away from using and preferring MT over AT.
The very few times I've been in that spot, generally I have to waive people passed, once it's clear, let my car roll backwards and do a sort of backwards three-point-turn, to face down. Once at the bottom of the hill, I duck into a parking lot (hopefully one that's empty), and wait for a large gap in traffic, then start my journey back up the hill, trying to leave enough space in front that even if the vehicles ahead slow down, I can still maintain my speed up the hill to the top without catching up to them. I'll generally start at a slower speed in a lower gear to ensure I cannot catch up to those in front of me.
Like I said, it's rare. I could count on one hand the number of times I've had to try again on a slippery hill, on one hand for over 10 years of driving a manual... And I'd have fingers to spare. So once every 3-4 years or more. Over time, I've gotten better at the handbrake trick and downshifting, that I need to go back and try again, less and less.
This is honestly one of the worst situations you could be in while driving a manual. I have not had to find a different way around because I wasn't able to take on any condition because of my manual, and more often than not, I can get out of situations where I'd otherwise be stuck in an AT, by just manipulating my MT just so.... Like rocking the car out of a rut (in snow/ice/mud), by feathering the clutch in time with the vehicle movements.... This is something that's much harder in an AT given that the motors force at idle is always pushed to the tires through the torque converter, so letting the car roll backwards, is always going to be less effective in an AT unless you're constantly shifting in and out of neutral, which isn't exactly a good thing to do to your transmission in an AT vehicle.
I could probably go on and on about challenges that AT's face that MT's can make quick work of with a reasonably seasoned driver behind the wheel, but I think I've painted a pretty clear picture.
Plus, they're just more fun to drive.
As a manual car enjoyer, my brain does all these tasks automatically without the need for conscious attention.
I believe you have the terms for drop clutch and engage clutch backwards.
I feel this pain. I'm a MT driver, it's part of the reason I'm very pragmatic about when I creep forward.... If I'm going to move forward just a little bit, I'm going to need a pretty good reason to do so; thus I try to be very observant to what's going on around me, specifically regarding if the gap in front of my is negatively affecting the movement of vehicles in my immediate area, like blocking laneways or slip lanes, etc. If I'm not creating a problem with where I am, I don't bother moving.
More cars can get in at the light behind you.
I don't live or drive in areas where the traffic is so dense and the spacing of the lights is so short that this is a problem.
I tend to notice, frequently, if there's any issues like this in my immediate area, like blocking a laneway or people getting stuck in an intersection or behind it, and I react accordingly.... Sometimes packing myself against the car in front of me, far closer than I normally would to try to fix such problems behind me. I'm sure I don't notice 100% of the time, but I'll notice an issue and creep forward to less than a foot to the vehicle in front of me, to make space so the person behind can move to clear a laneway where someone is stuck, only to have the person behind me not notice that I've moved, and continue blocking the laneway.
I'm pragmatic about it. If there's no good reason to shift forwards, I will probably just wait where I am. Once the light goes green though, I'll close the gap pretty quickly.
I always stop at intersections even if the light is green when it is clear that there's nowhere to go because traffic is backed up to a standstill. Where I come from people would honk at you and then pass you so that they can get stuck in the intersection and cause a traffic jam, then they give you the finger and scream at you out the window like its your fault. Savages
"I like to unnecessarily contribute to traffic."
Have you ever considered that this extends the backup for those behind you? That it actually does take time for your car to decelerate when you're stopping at the green light, in addition to the fact that it takes more time for multiple cars to pull off in series per car than just one? How about stop trying to be quirky and just go through the green light like a normal person?
???
In almost every jurisdiction on earth, you aren't allowed to block an intersection. OP is doing the right thing by waiting on the other side of the intersection for space to move into. If anything they're avoiding traffic by not blocking the tangent lane of cars at the next light.
Exactly. I've been fucked far too many times by the behavior the guy above you is condoning. People who block intersections are as much a part of the traffic problem as weavers, left lane cruisers, tailgaters, cutters, and all the jerks who deny zipper merging.
Valid. I missed the getting blocked into the intersection part because that feels like a given. Why even say anything at that point? It's a very mundane thing to say that you follow the rules of the road.
That's on me for looking for the argument before reading to understand.
Have you ever considered that in most places it's literally illegal to block an intersection, and that if there is not space to proceed through the intersection you're supposed to stop before it?
Agree if you are talking about people who edge over the line at the front of the queue but leaving massive gaps between you and whoever is in fro t causes issues further back.
You could be creating a block at a joining road behind you. You could be blocking a filter lane for traffic making a left/right turn from a dual carriageway.
Just move your car forward and remember that you dont know what issues your decision might cause and its a little self entitled to assume everyone else is just waiting in the same line as you.
Oh, certainly if it's a significant gap, more than a car length more than I would normally stop, I'll shift forwards, especially in high density situations (if nobody is behind me and I'm not blocking a laneway, then I'll probably just sit there).
Something to add to the consideration is that I drive standard, so moving a small amount is a lot more difficult for me than most drivers, and takes more active effort. Most AT drivers just release the brake for a few seconds and they can close the gap. I have to release the clutch and possibly press the throttle to ensure the engine doesn't stall... Etc.
I'll still do it, but my tolerance for a gap in front of me is much higher than others.
Fair enough. I may have taken meaning that you didnt intend from your comment. I had assumed you were purposfully holding up traffic because you were teying to point out somebody else being dumb on the road.
But totally fair enough.
All good. Have a good day.