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Obligatory, fuck Spez
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You literally called Ukrainians Nazis a couple hours ago.
The Ukrainians call themselves Nazis. They also name their streets after famous Nazis.
When someone covers themselves in Nazi symbols, and calls themself a Nazi, why won’t you believe them?
Half my family is Ukrainians. From Odessa, which is famous for being full of Jews. I lived in Ukraine for 5 years right before the invasion. Literally not a single Nazi in sight or any rhetoric. Wtf are you on about? If somebody convinced you of whatever you said, you've been duped.
So you’re claiming all of this is fabricated?
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-us-weapons-azov-a3a555670bedeae2022900621d79aba7
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/03/08/wdtz-m08.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-leader-slams-kyiv-for-naming-streets-after-nazi-collaborators/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html
No, I'm not saying these are fabricated, but I'm saying that you're cherrypicking examples to support your (Russia's) narrative. Every time Nazis in Ukraine are discussed, Azov battalion comes up. Guess what, 1 battalion doesn't make the entire nation Nazis. There are Nazis in all countries. There are even Nazi battalions in Russia, but Russians aren't Nazis?
The street renaming incident is just a result of incompetent research. They were just pulling any historical names to replace all the numerous Soviet era Russian names. The street I lived on in Kyiv got renamed to one after a Polish Jew. So why would Nazis name streets after Jews?
Ahh. You outed yourself. You can’t jump from ‘I’ve never heard of anything of the sort’ to ‘actually, I have intimate knowledge of why this is not as it seems, and these are cherry-picked.’
If you’re gonna push a lie, pick a lane.
I have done no such thing and I didn't push any lie. Believe it or not, we don't personally go around surveying battalions.
– Hey, guys. Are you Nazis? No? Are you sure? Well, okay then.Nazis exist in every country, but in non-Nazi societies, they don't manifest themselves, just like in Ukraine. You don't see Nazis on the streets wearing swastikas, or oppression of Jews or whatever. And up until the war started nobody even knew about Azov being Nazis.
But I can see from the way you react to this information and ignore the key elements, that you're determined to just stick to your misinformed opinion, no matter what I say. So perhaps this is pointless. Let me know if I'm mistaken, and you genuinely want to shed the misinformation you've been fed.
It was a concern long before the war. Ever since the Obama admin installed the far-right regime in the Maiden Coup, many people and organizations were raising alarm bells about the growing Nazi power in Ukraine. Especially when they started targeting ethnic Russians in the east.
The people with swastikas on their chest are Nazis if anyone is. Joe billy Bob the chicken farmer that has a mutual aid network but voted for Trump because Dems have never paid attention to him is not a Nazi.
It's disingenuous to pretend there's not a difference.
It is also disingenuous to label Ukrainians as Nazis, just because a couple of them are. Just like there are in every other country, be it Russia or USA.
Except in Ukraine the Nazis hold power, because the US installed a far-right puppet regime that refuses to hold elections. Now they’re spending millions erecting monuments of famous Nazis.
I'm not saying Zelenskyy is an angel, but the constitution literally forbids elections during war. Pick a better reason to criticize the government, there are plenty real ones.
You believe constitutionally enshrining authoritarianism to be an adequate defense of it?
Did the constitution also make him ban all opposition parties and media?
He didn't enshrine anything, it was already in the constitution before he was elected.
Regarding suppression of opposition, good, now you're bringing up more reasonable criticisms. But guess what? That doesn't make him or Ukrainians in general Nazis. There's a lot of authoritarian stuff still leftover after Soviet era, it takes time to move away from it.
And guess what, Zelenskyy, with all his issues, was a definite step up from the president before him (at least until the war happened, anyway). And the one before him was a definite step up from his predecessor.
You know who doesn't have that luxury? Russia and Belarus. Maybe criticize them for authoritarianism, instead of a country that at least is making progress.My country isn’t sending billions in modern weaponry to Russia (at least as far as I’m aware). But they are sending them to Nazis in Ukraine, so I have something to say about it.
Well, you still definitively called Ukrainians Nazis after I provided you with enough information to make you at doubt that assessment.
I envy your mental gymnastics skill. Wonder how you maneuver around the fact that "a Nazi nation elected a Jew president with 75% vote share".
No, I didn’t. Pointing out a Nazi regime being propped up by the US is not a declaration that all Ukrainians are Nazis. Seems a move of desperation on your part to attempt to distort it into that.
To use your own tactic against you (but unlike your attempts, effectively), earlier you claimed that "Ukrainians call themselves Nazi". Now you're saying that you don't call Ukrainians Nazis, but only the government. And I'm the desperate one, countering your every argument with facts that you ignore, while all you do is attempt to find inconsequential loopholes in my statements to declare yourself victorious. Meanwhile, I'm yet to see even a single substantial argument that would indicate that Ukrainian government is Nazi. So far your arguments were:
- "There are Nazis in Ukraine". Yeah, but a couple Nazis doesn't make the gov or the people Nazis.
- "They named streets after Nazis". Just because a street was named after a person who was possibly a Nazi doesn't make the gov Nazi. Especially considering the fact that other streets are named after Jews.
- "Gov contains authoritarian elements". Sure, doesn't make it Nazi.
Simply repeating something doesn't make it true, you have to back up your claims. Instead you just gloss over all the counter arguments I make, like there being plenty of Jews in Ukraine and the president himself being a Jew, that completely invalidate your claims.
Given their history it's like Germans with Nazi tattoos. Yeah a few might exist, but if the government starts actively recruiting them you might paint with a wider brush.
Never again means never again, and God damn did Ukrainians love the Nazis in WWII.
Saying that the government is "actively recruiting" them is also disingenuous, because it makes it sound like Nazis were specifically desired and chosen, as opposed to some recruits just turned out to be vaguely Nazis. Battalions of vaguely Nazi dudes exist in Russia, yet nobody is trying to denazify Russians.
And if you mean that the initial not so negative reaction of Ukrainians, hopeful that the Germans would free them from Russian oppression makes them Nazis, then, again, you're being disingenuous. In the end Ukrainians had the most casualties fighting the war against Nazis. Nobody is currently calling Finns Nazis, even though they didn't oppose them for similar reasons (getting back at Russia for oppression).
My dude ukes killed more Jews than nearly any other group from Eastern Europe. They weren't cautiously optimistic, they actively volunteered and aided Nazis. This isn't even controversial history.
why did they do it? why did they support the nazis and not the ussr? also you're full of bs, only because my great grandpa was a nazi doesn't mean I'm one and nazis are everywhere not just in ukraine, you simply hate ukrainians because daddy putin and xi tell you to