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Unpopular Opinion @lemmy.world Chill Dude 69 @lemmynsfw.com

If you play ANY mobile-style, free-to-PAY game, you are helping to destroy gaming. That includes any exceptions you think exist.

I'm mainly talking about these new "but they're different" games, that have gotten so fucking popular, lately.

"Honky Stair Rail" and "Genshin Implants" or whatever the fuck they're called.

I don't care if you can play them without spending any money. I don't care if they're any good. None of that matters. The whole model of the game being funded by whales, spending money on in-game items and currency IS LITERALLY EVIL.

There is no way to do it ethically. That is an impossibility, on a fundamental level. There is no excuse for anyone to give these so-called developers and publishers ANY amount of money, attention, or engagement.

The only acceptable way to pay for a game as a service is a traditional MMO subscription, where you pay a flat rate per month/year to access 100 percent of a game's available gameplay.

I don't care what your excuse is. I don't care that you like anime tits and ass. I don't care if you think your chosen free-to-pay game is different. It's not.

Stop supporting this shit. Support real games.

A couple of years ago, I would have considered this to be a popular opinion, but about 35-40 percent of the internet posts I see in 2024 are related to either "Honky Stair Rail" or "Genshin Implants," and it's starting to freak me the fuck out.

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  • What about people that pre order games? Or people that buy each version of Madden or Fifa? Or people that buy games regardless of rootkits like Denuvo? Are you going to call them all evil for supporting companies with dubious practices? For daring to buy games they like? You don’t get to tell people what they should do with their money or time to be “moral”. In fact, I could just as well argue that to spend any money whatsoever on computer games is evil while there are people starving out there.

    • What about people that pre order games? Or people that buy each version of Madden or Fifa? Or people that buy games regardless of rootkits like Denuvo? Are you going to call them all evil for supporting companies with dubious practices? For daring to buy games they like?

      I have no problem with any of that. You're putting words in my mouth. I actually think pre-ordering has a really good place in the activist buyer toolkit. Pre-order from companies who haven't burned you. Stop pre-ordering if they do burn you. It's a means of incentivizing good behavior. Make companies acutely aware that they have reputations that are either constantly at risk or needing to be mended, and there are always economic consequences for how they maintain those reputations.

      Like someone pointed out, the problem with the mobile-style business model is that the developers are forced to put roadblocks in front of your progress through the game and/or invalidate that progress. That's where I draw the line. When the basic gameplay loop is based around the default setting of "it takes forever to do everything," and you can buy your way out of that, as long as you keep pumping money into the game...well, that's not okay.

      There can't be any kind of good or acceptable way to run that model. It's outrageously harmful. And those "let's milk the players for a little more, every day" practices have become normalized to the point that they are showing up in games that supposedly aren't mobile-style pay-for-everything games. Like, look at some racing games, these days. They used to just have all the cars unlocked when you started the game, or maybe you'd unlock them as you progressed through the campaign mode.

      But now, there are plenty of racing games where LOTS of the cars are just locked behind microtransaction paywalls. I don't think I'm out of line for suggesting that we should try and stop this shit, before it gets worse. Remember: at least one game company exec has proposed a future where we have to buy in-game ammunition with real money. Not in mobile-style games. Not in free-to-download games. In real, full-price games.

      • My issue isn’t really with your argument, though I personally find pre-ordering to be as bad as this pay to win crap. (But I don’t feel passionately enough about that point to debate it - I concede that an activist buyer could leverage that)

        However, I do have issue with you calling people who spend money on micro transactions evil. Or immoral. I find that sentiment to be ridiculous and trivialising actual evil behaviour.

        I know about the story where some idiot executive suggested paying a dollar to reload or something stupid like that. If you called the companies evil, or the executives… you know what… I might support that allegation. But the players? The customers?

        I think I get why you are saying this - you believe the players enable/allow the companies to do this, thereby supporting their evil ways. I just don’t agree that buying a product (especially an entertainment product) from such a company is necessarily (and to use your word: literally) evil.

        Say I agree that these players are evil. Should I now stop being friends with people once I learn they play Genshin? Should I shun them? Tell my sister I can no longer visit them because she allows her kids to play Genshin and Fortnite?

        What about people paying subscriptions to streaming services that produce crap content? Or people that followed reality tv to the extent that it allowed the Kardashians to exist?

        So apologies for this long reply, I guess my only real point is that while I agree with you that the behaviour of these (mobile game) companies is deplorable (to me), if people willingly spend their money on it, that is none of my business. I can vote with my wallet by buying games from studios I like.

        Just like I dislike gambling and casinos, I would never call people that frequent those establishments immoral or evil.

        • I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding, here. I didn't ever intend to call the customers I disagreed with evil. Maybe I technically said that, at some point. Maybe without intending it, at all.

          That's not what I'm intending to say. I am intending to vehemently state that mobile-style game monetization models are evil. Furthermore, they represent an existential threat to the entire gaming hobby.

          There are possible futures where this shit snowballs into another gaming industry crash, like the one back in '83. And this one would be even more preventable. We're drowning in excellent technology, which has the potential to bring gaming to more people than ever. But that tech is being misused and abused, and so are the players.

          • So that argument I can support. However, while I do share your dismay with things as things stand, I am somewhat more optimistic. For instance, it is my belief that recent successes from BG3 and Eldenring for instance has shown companies that a significant market still exists for … let’s call it … traditional games where the model is simply you pay money for a complete game that is great.

            Now this obviously works for single player games but even there we see the encroachment you refer to. For instance there was some controversy on Dragons Dogma 2 for instance. (Fortunately turns out most of those items can be acquired in game but the micro transactions presence still irritates me).

            Personally I think a bigger threat to the industry is exemplified by Bethesda. Starfield was a pathetic game in my opinion. Lazy writing. Bad tech. Overpriced junk. And I believe that the advancement in AI is going to make it 10 times worse - bland AI written plots and NPCs… AI generated textures and models.

            Maybe I shouldn’t say threat to the industry. More a threat to the part of the industry I care most about, which is single player RPGs.

            So I guess my question would now be… why do you believe that the crappy monetisation practices of these mobile gaming pay to win companies would bring the industry as a whole down?

            Would people not just move to the next game? And is this not something we already see with the success of say Eldenring/BG3?

            • why do you believe that the crappy monetisation practices of these mobile gaming pay to win companies would bring the industry as a whole down?

              Well, let's look at Starfield. I don't hate it nearly as much as you do, but I definitely agree it has flaws. But now imagine that some of these hyper-monetization practices had invaded it, on top of the other problems. Like, if you had to do some horrible grind to get fuel for your ship, unleeeesssssss you wanted to pay for some Bethesda Bux, to make that process go faster.

              And now imagine almost every other single player RPG game has similar shit, crammed into it. Say anything you want about Todd Howard, I do think he would fight tooth and nail to prevent such a thing. And so would every other traditional RPG developer. But they don't really own their companies, anymore. They've all had to sell out to bigger entities, to keep putting food on the tables of their employees. And even the ones who remain independent aren't entirely above the pressures of the publishers.

              So imagine that they can't hold the flood back anymore, and the mobile-style ultra-monetization shit gets into all the RPG games, even more into every online FPS game, into all the single player FPSes and Boomer Shooters, even somehow into sidescrolling platformers and Metroidvanias. And adventure games. And every other genre you can think of.

              If all the major releases become completely overburdened with this shit, people might just decide "welp, I'm out. I'm leaving the hobby."

              That could cause a crash. Hopefully, true indie games could pull us out of the spiral, but I'm not sure of that. Especially in a scenario like I'm talking about. If there was a real exodus of millions of players, away from gaming, the industry would have to contract massively. Then all those devs who are currently employed by major studios would found a bunch of little indie studios. Some people would applaud that as an unalloyed benefit, but they would all be competing for a much smaller pool of money, and maybe none of them would be able to remain solvent.

              So, again, you get the potential for a devastating crash.

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