Back to linux!
Back to linux!
For like a month or two I decided, screw it, I am going to use all the programs I cannot use on Linux. This was mostly games and music making software.
I guess it was fun for a bit, tries different DAWs, did not play a single game because no time.
Basically, it was not worth it. The only thing I enjoyed was OneDrive, because having your files available anywhere is dope, but I also hate it because it wants to delete your local files. I think that was on me.
Anyways, I am back. Looking at Nextcloud. Looking at Ardour. I am fine paying for software, but morally I got to support and learn the tools that are available to me and respect FOSS. (Also less expensive... spent a lot on my experiment).
Anyone done this? Abondoned their principles thinking the grass would be greener, but only to look at their feet coverered in crap (ads, intrusive news, just bad UI).
I don't know. I don't necesarily regret it, but I won't be doing it again. What I spent is a sunk cost, but some has linux support, and VSTs for download. So, I shall see.
You're viewing a single thread.
I'll say it again: https://tadeubento.com/2023/linux-desktop-a-collective-delusion/
Linux has made significant strides, and in 2023, it’s better than ever. However, there are still individuals perpetuating a delusion: that desktop Linux is as user-friendly and productive as its mainstream counterparts. After a few discussions on Lemmy, I believe it’s important to provide a clear review of where Linux falls short as a daily driver for average users.
Great article, have a few issues with it though:
-
Google docs are free (as in beer) and collaborative and just about as good, and Minihard's web interface also works. This still doesn't account for all use cases, bur that should be about 80% of people who think they can't live with LibreOffice.
-
KeepassXC is cute, but not modern because of it's lack of cross-device sync. I use Bitwarden and it works great. Having options is great. I get their frustration with flatpaks self-contained package formats have only ever given me headaches. Also flatpak isn't a feature that windows does either.
-
I have no clue what their problem is with virtualization, but I've used virtualbox, vmm, and just the CLI for qemu, and I've never had the issues of cumbersome installation or a virtualization disabled error
-
Speaking of virtualization, I've run old software and games with wine all the time. I'm sure there's some performance hit, but it's pretty negligible unless you're one of those people that meticulously tracks performance metrics instead of just relying on feel (cough "5-15% performance hit in games boohoo cough)
-
*some developers and sysadmins. I know people who act as counterexamples and use linux personally and professionally
Windows licenses are cheap and you get things working out of the box. Software runs fine, all vendors support whatever you’re trying to do and you’ll be productive from day zero... It all comes down to a question of how much time (days? months?) you want spend fixing things on Linux that simply work out of the box under Windows for a minimal fee. Buy a Windows license and spend the time you would’ve spent dealing with Linux issues doing your actual job and you’ll, most likely, get a better ROI.
You can buy a second hand computer with a decent 8th generation CPU for around 200 € and that includes a valid Windows license. All computers selling on retail stores already include a Windows license, students can get them for free etc.Aaaaaaaaaaaand all the previous examples go out the door. All of the aforementioned "benefits" of windows cost money. Adobe is all SaaS, MS office is SaaS, AutoCAD is SaaS, windows itself is arguably SaaS, that hypervisor that isn't jank is SaaS; those annoying janky hardware solutions that have drivers only for windows charge for those drivers and the bespoke UI programs that control the hardware, the securitybrisks of running XP for the aforementioned costs money, those sysadmin and developer solutions cost money (usually also on a subscription). If you want the well-documented and supported software that brings the streamlined experience that fanboys prattle on about, you don't go with freeware; windows freeware sucks just as hard in the UX sense while also being proprietary and spying on you/designed only to upsell you to paid. And don't make me get into the monetary worth of all the data the above programs and windows itself harvests. This rose-tinted windows experience isn't "cheap" unless you're in the global top 10-20%, the rest of us make do with freeware that sucks harder than linux. I'm one of the few who are lucky enough to be able to save 25% of my monthly income and some dick behind their keyboard is trying to convince me to throw 2 months worth of that away every year on software that doesn't do the job better, just more conveniently.
Not to mention the spying! What is this? Stockholm syndrome? Battered user syndrome? Blink 3 times if Windows hits you!
As far as I can tell, most of the actual arguments that hold weight boil down to "For desktops, Windows is superior for businesses and jobs" and that's not a failure of linux. That's fine by me if it isn't profitable, that's not the point of FOSS. In fact that misses the point entirely.
Google docs are free (as in beer) and collaborative and just about as good, and Minihard’s web interface also works. This still doesn’t account for all use cases, bur that should be about 80% of people who think they can’t live with LibreOffice.
For what's worth I think LibreOffice is way superior to Google Docs and in Calc documents can even be shared. Maybe we'll see more of that in the future?
KeepassXC is cute, but not modern because of it’s lack of cross-device sync.
This is right and wrong at the same time. KeepassXC does allow for cross-device sync, the keychain file is saved and created in a way to handle real time syncing across devices. Most people use Synching or some even public clouds for it. There are also multiple features to share items across users https://keepassxc.org/docs/KeePassXC_UserGuide#_database_sharing_with_keeshare.
KeepassXC is simple, secure, audited and reliable and unlike Bitwarden it doesn't require a service running and wasting resources in order to get the job done. It is all filesystem based very portable and bullshit less. Also unlike Bitwarden it doesn't require 4GB of ram and 25GB of storage to host a simple sync service. I'm aware there's an alterative implementation of the Bitwarden written in Rust that is way more reasonable but still what kind of garbage software requires that amount of resources just to sync passwords?
All of the aforementioned “benefits” of windows cost money
Yes, so what? All of the aforementioned “benefits” of Linux cost time that is guess what, money.
windows freeware sucks just as hard in the UX sense while also being proprietary and spying on you/designed only to upsell you to paid
Unless that freeware is WinSCP that is effectively better from a UX and performance standpoint than any similar client for Linux as described ahah
trying to convince me to throw 2 months worth of that away every year on software that doesn’t do the job better, just more conveniently.
As you said, you're one of the lucky ones, maybe your workflow can be 100% productive under Linux + alternatives as it is, but it doesn't change the fact that for everyone else that works with other people who use the proprietary solutions can go that route. There are a ton of cases listed on the article.
The point of the article is to consider ROI above all instead of being a blind follower that worships Linux desktop as religion and a solution that will fit all and everything.
Not to mention the spying! What is this? Stockholm syndrome? Battered user syndrome? Blink 3 times if Windows hits you!
There's group policy to fix that and W10Privacy if don't want to spend the entire afternoon... Not perfect yes, but guess what Ubuntu also snitches on you, Firefox includes unique identifiers on each installation and contacts Mozilla's servers frequently and at least a 3rd party analytics company - even after manually disabling everything known and suspicious under settings and config editor.
that’s not the point of FOSS. In fact that misses the point entirely.
What's the point of FOSS if it can't properly and actually replace proprietary stuff in the job in order to free our "2 months worth" of work? You yourself use it like that.
How do you run a containerized web browser and password manager in Windows?
If you aren't then I see the complaint ridiculous, because outside of flatpak it works fine.
Look, Flatpak is great and solves the packaging problem of Linux desktop apps once and for all for all distros.
That doesn't answer the question.
I agree, they are great, but they are also new and have bugs to work out.
-
Nah, for all the pain, I still rather be on linux.
Linux is as user-friendly and productive as its mainstream counterparts.
Windows lately: The office and SCADA machines I work with are the most obstructive systems imaginable. Randomly logging users out while running a machine, blue screening despite only running a single 2mb .exe for more than a week. Surprise, bitch, you gotta update even though this is a mission critical machine that is in use!
In all seriousness I would really love to see how you people are using Windows and how good is your hardware. I don't get it, been using Windows both at home and work since ever (alongside Linux) and I can't complain since Windows 10. Instead of spending around 2 months tweaking a Linux DE and Wine to get something somehow working if you just spend a single afternoon configuring Windows properly it will run fine for years.
And btw if you're running mission critical systems / SCADA and Windows nags you with updates and whatnot maybe that isn't Window's fault, its yours because you decided to cheap out and instead of getting Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC you went with Windows 10 Home or Pro. At least get a regular Enterprise edition and hire a good consultant that knows his way around group policy. :)
I ran Debian on my daily driver laptop starting in 2016 and after the first week of tweaking I ran it for 5 years. And that's not just web browsing, I used it for gaming, running VMs, programming and CAD. It was the lowest maintenance machine I have had. Conversely my W10 gaming machine surprises me pretty much monthly with its Windowsy bullshit. Will the USB mic be detected or will I have to restart Steam to regain voice chat, will the latest update disable my second monitor, will a joystick that requires no extra software under Linux require me to run an unsigned executable with an EULA written in Chinese? Who knows! 🤡
And btw if you’re running mission critical systems / SCADA and Windows nags you with updates and whatnot maybe that isn’t Window’s fault, its yours because you decided to cheap out and instead of getting Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC you went with Windows 10 Home or Pro. At least get a regular Enterprise edition and hire a good consultant that knows his way around group policy. :)
Our IT department was outsourced to an international support company that thinks blocking NTP but allowing SSH and mandatory reboots of production equipment is a solid security policy. "Windows Brain" is a thing in corporate settings.
Debian (...) I used it for gaming, running VMs, programming and CAD. It was the lowest maintenance machine I have had. Conversely my W10 gaming machine surprises me pretty much monthly with its Windowsy bullshit.
So you were virtualizing Windows for those tasks and you say the entire machine was low maintenance. How come you say that a Debian machine with Windows VMs is more low maintenance than a simple Windows machine?? If you had Windows all along how come you didn't have to deal with the alleged "annoyances" of Windows inside those VMs?
Our IT department was outsourced to an international support company that thinks blocking NTP but allowing SSH and mandatory reboots of production equipment is a solid security policy. “Windows Brain” is a thing in corporate settings.
On the first comment you said Windows was at fault for rebooting itself and asking for updates... now you're saying it reboots because some support company in India is forcing reboots... So in the end its your CEO's fault for hiring them not Window's...
How come you say that a Debian machine with Windows VMs is more low maintenance than a simple Windows machine
I use software to program industrial hardware, it's Windows only and if you install it all (or multiple versions of one package) on a single machine they start to break each other's shitty hacks. Using VMs saves me from having to own and maintain 5 physical machines. The VMs don't even have a virtual nic so they stay frozen in a working state and don't get broken by a bugfix.
India
Denmark.
CEO’s fault for hiring them not Window’s…
The Windows problem is that it needs to restart during the update process and that Windows "professionals" have no other option. The fact that updates are on a mandatory schedule at all is the result of 20 years of vulnerabilities that were going unpatched because Windows updates break working systems.
Security updates for Linux are just as needed, an unpatched bug can be exploited, but applying those patches does not interfere with operation of the machine. The update can be installed at any time, restarting the application or the whole machine can be done at any time.
but applying those patches does not interfere with operation of the machine. The update can be installed at any time, restarting the application or the whole machine can be done at any time.
This isn't always true. Kernel updates require reboots and those are as equally important when it comes to security. There are tons of systems that get hacked in this way, people update the software without rebooting and suddenly they're running a 4 year old kernel that is exploitable in some way and they thing they're secure.
Also you don't seem to have experience with LTSB and what and how updates are done. Long story short: security and very critical updates only reboots aren't required as often as with regular Windows Pro/Home/Enterprise nor they're are surprise updates randomly rebooting things. Your admin will control everything how it happens and when.
When it comes to Windows the reboots are usually require reboots are feature updates and other non essential stuff. Apart from those situations similar to the Linux kernel it won't require a reboot.