'We Are Witnessing a New Brain Drain' as Scientists Flee America for France
'We Are Witnessing a New Brain Drain' as Scientists Flee America for France
A French university says it's providing safe harbor to American scientists from Yale, Stanford, NASA, and the NIH.
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I'm doing my part fleeing to Sweden, granted I'm a programmer and game dev so not a scientist. I'm done letting the US profit off my skills though
You will like it, Sweden has a nice relaxed working culture where we actually care about how people feel at work.
Don't forget to get rid of your US citizenship or they'll still profit off your work.
i thought it was just that if the country you’re in taxed you less than what the US would, then you have to pay the difference to the IRS?
… and there’s no way in hell the US taxes less than sweden (and for anyone that hasn’t had an ice pick lobotomy that’s a good thing)
*edit: foreign tax credit
How so?
If you make over X thousand dollars you have to pay taxes on it to the US even if you don't live there. The value is something like 160k.
isn’t it only the difference above what you’re taxed in your country and what the US would tax?
and since the US tax rate is one of the lowest in the world, it almost never applies
i think it’s covered by the foreign tax credit
That's true up until that X thousand mark. There is a limit on the foreign tax credit the US provides. So you pay no taxes to the US up until a certain income figure, then you pay essentially double taxes (US and where you actually live).
Don't worry you won't make 160k in Sweden :(
Does that matter if you've already cut all other ties and live somewhere else? I mean, actually paying the taxes seems like more of an active choice if you're living in a different jurisdiction, isn't it?
Extradition is a thing and no matter how much I hate what the rich have made America, I still would prefer to settle our debts. I lived there, I was raised there, I owe them my taxes like a good citizen - but now that I'm gone if I ever get close to having to pay taxes to them again I will remove my citizenship. They no longer provide me any services, in fact I'd argue they hurt me now more than they help me, and I want to become an EU citizen first and foremost.
I've always viewed countries as businesses which one should leave when their service and product is bad.
You still need a valid passport, and for becoming Citizen often further documents like birth certificates and certificates of the parents, no older than x-months and with an approval-stamp by the embassy, that these are indeed real documents.
I want more European game developers, so yeah good on you
Welcome home to the capital country of gaming!
Thank you! I'm so excited to make my way. Just hoping the US holds out long enough for me to make the move I'm definitely a bit scared with how fast it's all happening here
Did you just job hunt over there and get a work visa?
I've got enough tech experience I probably could have. I'm going back to school though out of savings and going to get on a student visa
Where you going to? I'm a data engineer living in Malmö. I can help you get settled if you're in Skåne
Depending where I may get accepted, I'm likely to end up in Umeå, Boden, or Skellefteå. So just a bit further north than Malmö 😅 I appreciate the offer though
Oh that's nice; far up north. Hope you'll enjoy it up there! All the best and awesome you're choosing to come here!
Interesting. How easy is it to stay over there if you go to school? Are the student visas hard to get?
I have to line up a job before I graduate because I don't qualify for like a "just graduated give me some time to settle" visa, so that may be difficult. I don't really know if the student visa is hard to get. I need to be accepted to school first then I can use that to make my visa application, so the timing is going to be pretty rushed. I'm going to have to set up moving and living, basically be in standstill for a bit waiting to see if I can pull the trigger, then hope the visa clears
I'm in the process of getting certified to be a nurse in New Zealand. Fuck this country.
I assume you're taking a big hit salary-wise (a trade-off I would make, for the record).
Cost of living. You earn a lot less in Europe/ UK, but you pay far less to have a basic standard of living, and enjoy the safety net.
This is always said, I have seen the stats that prove it but I have just never come across people here that are as strapped and in debt as a lot of americans I meet. Not to mention the amount of additional taxes like state, county, huge property taxes. The numbers must add up, I wont deny the facts but how itnworks is beyond me
Well I'm going back to school there first to get an actual degree. After that though yeah I'm expecting to make around 1/3 what I am currently, between switching countries and going from automation engineering to level design. I think it'll be a worthwhile trade-off too
If you take into account all the things you don't have to pay, that salary is not that low
Out of interest, since moving continents is no small matter in my opinion; what makes that, and making a third in terms of salary vs the US, a worthwhile trade-off?
Not OP but like come on, look outside - the country is a roadside attraction. I wouldnt raise my kids there under any circumstance...so I guess safety is a consideration.
Yeah I know but didn't want to assume. Some people have family roots for example. I do work with US colleagues and not all feel the need to move countries for example, which I find very interesting because it sure looks like a shit show to me. I'm not based in the US myself.
I was actually just starting to root here, for the first time in my life I felt like I could settle in somewhere. Then my polycyle imploded, lost most my friends, divorce, job is getting worse every day. Leaving the US has always been a dream of mine but I felt tied here most the time. Losing my entire social circle created a convenient opening
Lots of reasons over the years but the most immediately pressing is I'm trans so if the US starts black bagging people I'm high up there on the list
Ah gotcha yeah that makes a lot of sense! I hope that kind of bigotry dies out again soon but doesn't look like its slowing down. I hope you can feel safe and be more like your true self now.
Unfortunately I don't think it is going to die out, I think it will need to be rooted out at the cost of lives. The feeling safe part is important but I've been living my true self a while now. I make an active effort to not pass too well so that other trans people who feel they can't show themselves can see me and know there are others around. That was important for me early on so I want to provide that. Has led to some less than stellar interactions though even in Seattle...
Certain stuff, and especially rent, is a lot cheaper in Europe, though.
It was a pretty big shock for us when so many of the Ukrainian refugees that arrived during recent years came in SUVs, and they looked quite new, too. But in Ukraine, one of Europe's poorest countries by far, cars cost a lot less, too.