Don't forget where we came from and what shaped us as a species. The Jungle.
Don't forget where we came from and what shaped us as a species. The Jungle.
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So, after reading a lot of the comments, I figured I’d offer my two cents:
What I eat depends on what I feel I need at the moment a lot more than what I’m in the mood for. And because of this, I try to eat as healthily as possible and as a result- it usually ends up being on the vegetarian side of things. Think pastas, fruits/veggies, etc. Occasionally though, it’s a burger, or something else that is meat-based.
What I don’t do however, is spend any time at all being concerned with what others choose to eat, and that is because it has no relevance to me whatsoever.
For the life of me I cannot understand why this is a thing that matters so deeply to so many people when there are FAR more important things to worry about.
If vegans don’t want to eat meat, who cares? They are happy living their life this way. Leave them alone about it. It’s their choice, their diet- and none of your business.
If someone wants to eat a steak, who cares? They are happy living their life this way. Leave them alone about it. It’s their choice, their diet- and none of your business.
The sooner we all stop actively participating in the habits and interests of others unsolicited, the sooner we can start taking on some of the things that actually matter.
/rant.
EDIT: Realizing now the mistake one makes when trying to remain neutral in a discussion where vegans are involved. I really tried to be neutrally supportive of one’s dietary choices, and I remain so, but man… these few people are making it difficult to not see how people can find them obnoxious.
I’m sorry I really didn’t want to be made to feel this way for having tried to make a civil statement of opinion.
What omnivores eat should actually matter to vegans because theyre responsible for stress and suffering, which many see as their moral obligation to oppose. Funny how its mostly the other way around.
Imagine people going around raging about how you dont beat your wife and kids or dont rape and kill children.
Also the environmental impacts. I don't own a huge polluting coal powerplant that is actively contributing to fucking up the planet that I live on, and I'm still allowed to criticise them for it. Why should the meat industry be any different?
As I already stated, I’m not getting baited into a morality debate.
If you don’t like eating meat- don’t eat it, but leave others alone about. It’s not your business what they choose to eat.
And WTF? This has nothing to do with beating kids, or raping children, and I don’t appreciate the disgusting false equivalency you feel you need to use in order to make a point.
So instead, here’s an actual equivalency:
Imagine people going around and telling you that you have to do something you don’t want to do because of their belief. Like for instance….
forced birth.
You are actually telling people what they should or should not do, based on how you morally feel about something.
What I’m suggesting, is simply a dietary version of pro choice. You should be free to eat how you feel you need to in order to satisfy your needs, as well as your moral code- provided it remains within the limits of the law. EVERYONE should have this freedom. Even if you or I don’t like it.
So maybe leave people alone about it and put that energy towards something that has a better chance of success
I dont understand your point. Everyone DOES have the freedom you are talking about and noone is debating that. Why are you pretending like thats not the case?
In some areas men are allowed to beat their wives. Youre still allowed to critisize them for it, and you should be allowed to.
Also, regarding your actual equivalency, everyone is allowed to critisize women for getting abortions. But you shouldnt be allowed to deny it. Thats the difference. Were talking about the same thing over and over, youre just not seeing it are you?
Yet another false equivalency. You can’t stop, can you?
Explain please how it is not exactly the same.
No.
Thought so. Sorry for demanding you do something youre not capable of.
Apology accepted. And thanks for proving my point. You can’t leave people alone and you feel that you’re entitled to tell others what to eat based on your own personal belief regardless if they ask you for your opinion.
You are literally the quintessential obnoxious vegan that people talk about- that I used to defend.
Enjoy your evening.
Im not vegan, why would you assume that? Not even vegetarian. I am simply saying people should be allowed to criticize others based on their moral beliefs. What you are saying is "people should stop criticizing me for my behaviour because I think I am morally correct". Thats not how the world works.
Not vegan, but to play the vegan’s advocate—vegans are acutely aware of the level of cruelty in the factory farm system, as well as it's affect on the environment and don’t want to partake in those systems of harm and taking without consent. To them, it’s not just a dietary choice but an ethical stance against suffering and exploitation. To someone who sees the life of a cow as just as sacred and important as a human's, you can imagine why it would upset them to see you eating a steak. Just like you might be upset if you saw someone eating a dog or a fellow human. To them there's no difference.
It’s similar to how evangelical Christians genuinely believe they’re trying to save people from eternal damnation when they get preachy. Just as annoying. The difference is that one is rooted in observable reality—documented animal suffering, environmental damage, and ethical concerns—while the other is a matter of 'faith.' and the latter is given a lot more leeway. So when vegans speak out, it’s not necessarily about policing your diet; it’s about trying to reduce harm in a world where harm is often hidden or normalized. And for what it's worth I have known a lot of vegans and not one of them was ever preachy or judgemental, in fact most tend to keep it to themselves because vegans are so often the subject of ridicule, the butt of played out jokes, or made to host a session of 20 questions and feigned health concerns from people who eat nothing but processed meat and carbs.
I believe everyone should be able to do and live as they want as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's ability to do the same, and I can fully understand how to a vegan someone eating a steak would break that rule.
And if a vegan wants to help that by abstaining from animal-based products, that’s awesome for them, a great and healthy thing to do, and I wholeheartedly support it! But they don’t need to be telling others that they must do it also.
They have make the effort to put the info out there, and did their part by staying true to their own beliefs, and it should stop there. They shouldn’t be getting involved in the decisions others make on what to eat or what to buy any more than anyone should be telling them they are wrong for their vegan ideology.
That’s all I’m saying.
I will not debate the moral implications as that is not relevant to the point I’m making and is a different discussion altogether.
And I'm saying the vegan that tells others how to live their lives is as fictional as the god who damns non-believers to hell. Even the weird publicity stunts by PETA are just to raise awareness of the issue.
And the moral implications are totally relevant as they completely explain the reasoning of someone who would care if you ate a steak, the question your original comment asks.
Okay. You’re entitled to that take, and I’m simply just stating mine.
And that is- The reason for either side’s justification is irrelevant. Just leave people alone to do their own thing. If they want to know about the other side’s cause, they’ll look into it themselves. It’s 2025. The info is out there in spades.
So, maybe… let’s care less about what others eat, as it’s not our business unless asked, and care more about what we ourselves can do to make things better.
Just a suggestion.
Would you make the same comment if somebody else was eating a human child? If not, why?
"Just leave people alone to do their thing." "Let's care less about what others eat."
Do you see how this very same logic could be used to excuse pretty much any diet or action?
Would you make the same comment if somebody else was eating a human child? If not, why?
No, I would not. Why? Because we’re not talking about human children.
Now. Im done discussing this with you. Enduring two back-to-back attempts to argue in bad faith using false equivalencies is my limit.
I simply wanted to state my point that people should be free to make their own decisions on what they want to eat without being harassed, and you came in to be the perfect shining example of my point.
I see no other purpose in continuing this, ending it here.
I'm a different person, that was my first comment here.
The way I see it, the discussion was about permitting others to commit acts which one considers immoral.
In the case of a vegan that might mean allowing someone else to eat meat, but the ethical dilemma is the very same as allowing a cannibal to eat a child. Does one have any right to intervene in their daily habits and societal norms, just because you think it's wrong? If yes, why shouldn't the vegan do the same?
I will say that I can't claim to be a vegan myself. I just found your logic flawed.
If one considers the act immoral, yet said act is legal- then one has no business telling the person that they shouldn’t do said act. It’s not their business regardless of what it is.
Child abuse doesn’t apply here.
Rape doesn’t apply here.
Apples don’t apply here.
Oranges don’t apply here.It’s about food. And it’s only considered immoral by those that believe that it is. And that belief is not an obligation to anyone.
And if I need any further proof to my point, look no further than the responses to my original comment. I’m getting hammered by people telling me I’m wrong and comparing the eating of meat to rape.
This was the exact point I made in my original comment. People need to stay out of the decisions of others. It’s not their business.
I’m done with this discussion now.
Your take, broken down into its elements goes as follows:
Premises: Doing X is legal. Person Y considers doing X wrong.
Reasoning: People should be allowed to do what is legal without moral objections from others.
Conclusion: Because X is legal, Y shouldn't object to other people doing X, despite the fact that Y thinks it's wrong.
Why shouldn't child abuse and rape be among the possible objectionable acts inserted in the place of variable X? The beautiful thing about logical structures is that their validity is independent of the specific words that are inserted for the variables. If you think the logic in the statement above is valid, then consider the following statements using the exact same logic, just with different variables:
Eating meat is legal. A vegan considers eating meat to be wrong. Because it is legal, the vegan shouldn't object to other people eating meat, despite the fact that they think it's wrong.
Eating children is legal on the cannibal island. Joe considers eating children to be wrong. Because it is legal, Joe shouldn't object to other people eating children, despite the fact that Joe thinks it's wrong.
The nazis set laws which made the holocaust legal. Angela considers the systematic killing of Jews, disabled people, socialists and intellectuals to be wrong. Because they made it legal, Angela shouldn't object to other people doing it, despite the fact that Angela thinks it's wrong.
These statements are identical in their logic. If despite this you disagree with some of the statements but not all of them, then you need to articulate your stance with more nuance.
Doing X is legal.
Person Y has no place telling someone they shouldn’t do X.
Person Y is more then welcome to make the information publicly known and available to anyone that partakes in doing X
Person X is under no obligation to look at said information if they don’t wish to.
Person Y should leave person X alone to live their life without constant harassment from person Y.
Person Y probably doesn’t like others telling them how to live their lives, what they should put in their bodies, who they should marry, love, or live with.
Person Y should note the irony in this.
Person Y should spend their time in support of others that share the same belief than antagonizing those that don’t.I didn’t read the rest of your wall of text as I have said time and again here that I refuse to argue about it. You all have zero respect for others wishes- I no longer have any for yours. I’ve tagged you as “vegan blowhard” so I’ll now know not to engage with you in the future.
Oh, and congrats! You pushed someone further away from your cause.
If one considers the act immoral, yet said act is legal- then one has no business telling the person that they shouldn’t do said act. It’s not their business regardless of what it is.
Do you really not see the problems with this? This discussion may be about eating meat, but you just made a general statement about when it is and isn't okay to tell people that what they're doing is wrong.
This is a literal defense of slavery. I'm not even misinterpreting it or taking it to a logical conclusion like that other comment I left, you are straight up saying that abolitionists are wrong when they tell slave owners that they shouldn't own slaves if slavery is legal in their region.
Edit: y'all can read through this thread if you like, but we literally got nowhere except for this guy blocking me. Either he cannot understand the problems with his underlying logic, or he is ideologically consistent and thinks that the Holocaust was totally fine because it was legal and it didn't hurt him.
Yeah… you’re definitely misinterpreting it. And again, like everyone’s else- arguing false equivalency.
This is not at all like defending slavery. This is telling people to butt-out of the dietary decisions that have nothing to do with you.
If you want an argument that IS similar…
What telling others what they should and shouldn’t eat is not u like those that presume it’s their responsibly to tell other who they can and cannot love.
Someone eating cheeseburgers has absolutely no impact on your life and doesn’t hurt you in the least bit. Just like who someone decides to love has no impact on anyone else.
If you don’t like someone’s diet, that’s a YOU problem. And this goes for both sides of the argument. Though I don’t see any meat-eaters whining about this.
Imagine that.
Everything was legal before people decided certain things shouldnt. You think that happened overnight? No, people started complaining because they had moral values.
What if I like eating human meat?
Youre entitled to your opinion, but the argument in itself is not a valid one. Not caring about what other people do has is called anarchy. How would you rate the same argument with other context?
"Lets care less about who others kill?" (that ones actually pretty similar now that im writing it^^)
"Lets care less about who others spit on?"
"Lets care less about when your neighbors blast their music at 130dB"Imagine those in a context where there were no laws regulating those actions yet. Someone had to step up and start demanding we regulate behavior and establish rules for generally accepted behavior. Those rules are constantly changing and they should. We need to adjust to new information as we go on. Making animals suffer for our convenience is something many people consider immoral and sometimes people point out when other do immoral things.
Are you people capable of arguing without using false equivalencies?
I made my point that people shouldn’t tell others what to do with their diets, and you’re here to be a perfect example of my point.
Thanks?
But like I told the other person doing the same thing, I don’t argue with people who bring false equivalence to a conversation to derail the meaning of my own point.
Enjoy your evening.
Where is the false equivalency? I dont think you know what that term means.
"Lets care less about who others kill?"
What, not who. And someone choosing to eat meat has nothing to do with whether or not you care. It’s about whether or not you have the right to tell them they shouldn’t when they DIDN’T ASK YOU.
This is a false equivalence because you’re equating something that is not equal to the argument presented.
"Lets care less about who others spit on?"
No one is talking about spitting on anyone, or being spit on by anyone.
This is a false equivalence because in this discussion, animals aren’t spit, nor are they being spit on, nor are they spitting on anyone. In addition to it being false equivalence- it’s downright nonsense.
"Lets care less about when your neighbors blast their music at 130dB"
No one is talking about music. Animals aren’t music. Animals aren’t playing music. No one is playing music. My neighbors have nothing to do with this.
This is a false equivalence because you’re equating something that is not equal to the argument presented.
And if none of these are false equivalencies. Then I’m the very least- they’re ALL straw men. And that’s by definition- arguing in bad faith. Which is apparently, the only way you can discuss the topic.
Blocking you now as I have wasted enough of my time, but trust me when I say this- I am now no longer neutral on the topic. I will no longer waste my time defending veganism in any conversation that illustrates them in a negative light as you all have proven you don’t deserve the time wasted in doing so.
See, I told you you dont know what the term means...
If someone wants to eat a steak, who cares?
The cow
Realizing now the mistake one makes when trying to remain neutral in a discussion where vegans are involved.
"Realizing now the mistake one makes when trying to remain neutral in a discussion where abolitionists are involved" ~ someone in 1850s Kansas, trying to remain neutral in a discussion about slavery and complaining about those damn abolitionists who can't see the nuance in owning people
>inb4 some room temperature IQ replies with "are you really equating eating meat with slavery?"
No, slavery is worse than animal agriculture. That doesn't mean that animal agriculture isn't wrong for the same reasons that slavery is. You're driving a demand for unnecessary harm to be done to sentient beings for a product you don't need to survive.
Well, here’s how it is, and I offer no apologies that you don’t like it:
You say the cow cares? I say the cow never asked for your advocacy. And we both know you cannot prove it has. So, in reality, it’s easily just as safe to assume that the cow never asked for your support as it would be to assume they did. And it’s also safe to assume they are entirely clueless about the concept of meat consumption, and even if they were, they’d be entirely indifferent to it because they lack the ability to conceive even the slightest notion of their own mortality- because they’re cows.
Look… People love to install human emotions and complex thought processes in everything we see. Up to and including inanimate object. It’s how we can connect with the world around us. If it feels what we feel, we can understand it better.
It’s a cow. It doesn’t think about shit. It has a natural preservation of life because that is built into survival instinct because that is part of how propagation of species works.
And no one asked your opinion on the moral responsibility of consuming meat either. You just offer it. So when I say that people should butt-out of others legal decisions regarding dietary habits- it’s shit like what you’re song here that illustrates my point.
What someone wants to eat, provided it is legal- is only considered to be your business to you and you alone- not to them. So your opinions of their consumption of cheeseburgers is every bit as important to an omnivore as the opinions of Christian fundamentalists are to the LGBTQ.
They don’t care.
Done arguing this. It’s obnoxious and a waste of time to bother. The only lesson learned here is a neutral stance doesn’t exist in a discussion with vegans.
Mistake only made once. Trust me.
You say the cow cares? I say the cow never asked for your advocacy. And we both know you cannot prove it has.
I can prove pretty easily that cows can suffer. I can't prove that any individual cow wanted to live any more than I can prove that any murder victim wanted to live, but it's a safe fucking assumption that they did.
And it’s also safe to assume they are entirely clueless about the concept of meat consumption
And a child doesn't know what sex is, but it turns out that the victim not being able to comprehend the crime being committed against them is not a justification for committing that crime. I know, you don't think your logic can be expanded to cover things outside of dietary decisions, but it can whether you like it or not.
What someone wants to eat, provided it is legal- is only considered to be your business to you and you alone- not to them. So your opinions of their consumption of cheeseburgers is every bit as important to an omnivore as the opinions of Christian fundamentalists are to the LGBTQ.
Something being legal does not mean it's okay, and my opinion of me consumption is a bit more meaningful than the opinions of Christian fundamentalists to the lgbt, on account that your perfectly legal dietary decisions actively cause harm in a way that being gay doesn't.
eating cheeseburgers doesn't cause harm
it's a safe fucking assumption that they did.
it's not. we don't have proof that cows understand personal mortality. we therefore have no reason to believe they want to live or not to die.
….. k