The Ultimate Self-Own: Actively applauding politicians that bypass the rule of law just to own your enemies
The Ultimate Self-Own: Actively applauding politicians that bypass the rule of law just to own your enemies
Has this person even considered the incredibly dangerous precedent being set where BOTH sides of the two party system have constituents that actively encourage them to abandon the rule of law?
What could go wrong?
Those damned leopards were so cute that I walked up to them and pet them.......but they ate my face!
Don't come crying to me when the leopards actually eat your face.
This one video (and the pervasive tendency of Centrists to engage in echo chamber building using "official block lists" on world and BlueSky) has inspired me to start this community.
*Maybe he's joking and I am not in on the joke? *
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smug lib
Excellent job taking a valid argument on why the political system in the United States is a corrupt institution that can't be fixed merely by voting for one of the two lobbyist-sponsored self-interest parties... and subsequently making your opinion seem worthless by drawing ideological lines.
Liberals are also disillusioned with the state of affairs, as evidenced by their abysmal turnout. Instead of contributing to the partisan division, you could have made an argument that all Americans are being screwed by unopposed oligarchs paying both sides to enact policies that benefit nobody but themselves.
Edit again: Phrasing things the first time has never been my strong point, but surely I can't be the only one who considers antagonizing people who might otherwise agree with you to be a terrible idea.
Oh look an identity politics brainwashed smug lib right on cue!I’m guessing you think I’m a Republican or a Trumper or something. I assure you. I’m not.
It’s just your brainwashing that causes you to see things in such partisan terms.I’m actually a leftist
(evidently far more leftist than you)that is sick of other people(EXACTLY like you)cosplaying as a leftist then actively encouraging their politicians to be above the law because they have been so ideologically brainwashed that they can’t see the issues in giving ANYONE extrajudicial power.edit: blatant mischaracterization and demonstration of hypocrisy on my part
(evidently far more leftist than you)
Your award is in the mail buddy.
It was a witch-hunt.
They went after Biden again and again with every false claim they could find until they nailed him with something they don't even want enforced at all and no one else gets arrested for.
I agree with the pardon because even if it wasn't Bidens son, and was instead Bob from down the road, I'd still think he was being unfairly targeted and I don't believe in that kind of behavior.
You can't just follow someone every day until you find something to nail them on. That's not how the system is supposed to work. There are really criminals out there. It's important to send a message to the law that you can't just target someone you don't like .
I disagree strongly but thank you for your well-reasoned response.
This sets a dangerous precedent. Biden is (and always has been) a criminal.
Case in point (and very closely related to this pardon): He fleeced ENTIRE GENERATIONS OF STUDENTS IN DIRECT EXCHANGE FOR A PAYOUT FROM MBNA TO HIS SON THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
Thank you for your compliment. I also appreciate your rebuttable because if I only ever talk with people who completely agree with me ... Well I'd see a very foolish and arrogant man in every mirror.
It's been a long work day for me but I'll read the article you sent when I have a spare moment . It would be a waste to read it right now with my tired mind full of thoughts about work problems.
I should warn you though when I do read it and if I feel it isn't accurate or fair I will be coming back to explain that to you. Hopefully you enjoy that as much as I do.
Honestly I feel the biggest problem, the thing causing such division and anger, is how many people have adopted the foolish "my side is entirely right and yours entirely wrong. I will not listen I will only shout!" Mentality. I've always been very proud of myself for not subscribing to that mentality. My opinions obviously feel right to me but more importantly I don't close the door and lock it.
Forgive me for bringing up religion but I feel it's a good comparison. If I truly believe in Jesus then I shouldn't be afraid to speak to someone who does not. To be afraid of challenges to my beliefs means I either a) don't really have faith in my beliefs or b) don't have faith in myself.
If the only way I can hold a belief or opinion is by hiding myself behind a wall with my fingers in my ears... Its more of a toddler's safety blanket than a true thought or idea.
Sorry forgive my rambling. Long day lol.
You and pivot_root collectively made my day so much more wholesome. Interactions like these are why I love Lemmy's smallness. Kick back after your long day and relax and thanks for the reply. :)
You can't just follow someone every day until you find something to nail them on. That's not how the system is supposed to work.
This is how the system works though. Cops can follow you while driving and wait for you to make a mistake to pull you over. They can plant evidence to take you in, lie to you to get you to confess (despite your innocence), and then still put you away/worse despite evidence exonerating you, or you withdrawing your confession. And this is under a system that Biden spent his political career helping build.
Not saying that's how it should work, but that's definitely how it works for us little people. And if it's how it works for us, it's how it's supposed to work for everyone, not everyone except the family members of politicians.
Al Capone was taken down on tax evasion, not murder and booze/drug running. Hunter still broke the law, and precedent means nothing in today's America. This gives the "both sides" people another fact to throw out there (regardless of justification, Biden still pardoned his son) as justification for not voting since clearly the president's children are now above the law (since Trump and Biden have now done it).
Biden just told the country that he doesn't believe in the system he helped create to guard against abuse, so he's going to protect his son and wish the rest of us luck because, well...
I’ll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the goodest job as I know I can do, that’s what this is about. (When asked how he would feel if he lost to Trump during an interview on July 5, 2024)
- President Joe Biden
I understand your point by in have some disagreements that you've actually touched on in you're comment. I think you also know the issues I'm going to point out.
This is how the system works though. Cops can-
Yes, I understand you're point however... Remember the gangster Al Capone? He sold whiskey during prohibition, bribes cops, ran a lucrative empire... He COULD do that. He DID do that. Was it legal? To bring up my imaginary neighbor Bob again. If we were in the 1920s and Bob got killed by a booze runner and I told you "that's not okay with me" would you're response be "this is how the system works"?
No. What I said about Bidens son is valid. Yes the system often works that way for alot of people. I'm not okay with that. That's exactly my point. That's why I don't mind the pardon for Biden. I understand alot of people don't get pardoned for this obvious miscarriage of justice, I also understand he's getting better treatment because of his father... But to offer another comparison: "Bidens son get enough to eat because he's rich! Some people starve!" I'd reply to that "yes it's unfair alot of people starve because they are poor. That doesn't mean I want Bidens son to starve because of some kind of misguided attempt to make things fair. I don't want anyone to starve. I don't want anyone targeted illegally by police. It sucks only rich people get out of that situation. That doesn't mean I want more rich peoples kids harassed by police any more than I want more rich peoples kids to starve. That's not the avenue I think will solve the problem.
One more comparison to illustrate my point.
Imagine we lived in a world where everyone who made less than 100k a year got kicked in the balls every morning before work. That would be incredibly unfair and cruel. I wouldnt march the streets with a sign saying "kick the rich people in the balls everyday too!!!!" That's not the solution I want. I guess it would technically be more fair, but my goal isn't really fairness, I don't want to get kicked in the balls everyday because that sucks. I want that to stop not expand to more demographics. That doesn't help me at all. It just hurts more people. That's not the solution I want.
Edit: sorry I said that was my comparison but I've got one more.
Rosa Parks didnt refuse to leave her seat on that bus because she wanted white people to also be forced to sit at the back of the bus. She wanted black people to be able to sit in the front. That's what I'm talking about.
Obviously I want more rich people to go to jail for the crimes they committed and I want the system to be more fair. However my problem isn't that cops arent being SHITTY ENOUGH to rich people. My problem is they are not doing what we pay them to do and they have no real oversight or repercussions when they are shitty. I know it's common for cops to be shitty to disenfranchised people.
I've seen my privilege as a tall white redneck male. I've actually tested and pushed the boundaries of that privilege just to see how far I could actually take it. I'd love to tell you some stories sometime that would blow your mind. Things that would've got a black man killed but I didn't even get a ticket. I know the problems, I'm vocal about them. The solution isn't pushing cops to be equally crappy to more people. The solution is to make them less crappy.
Ok, so, we're on the same side, idk where you're coming from so hot and heavy.
I'm also not sure why you responded to my comment twice, but I'm not going to respond to them.
I feel like you're putting words in my mouth...
I never mentioned the IRS, I mentioned Al Capone and tax evasion, not as a "he could bribe his way out," but more as, "he broke tax evasion law, and that's what he was put away for. Just like how Hunter Biden broke the law, regardless of precedent, he should face the consequences."
That's it, that's the only reason I brought it up, I'm fully aware Trump and ilk are going to gut everything they can. I'm on VA disability, I'm fully aware I'm likely to lose half my income under his administration, and I fully understand what lays ahead of us for the next four years.
You poor poor soul ...
See, this is just condescending, and unwarranted. I engaged your ideas, I didn't condescend to you.
Yes, I understand you're point however...
You don't, and you responded to this sentence twice across two comments, not sure why. I explained above.
To bring up my imaginary neighbor Bob again. If we were in the 1920s and Bob got killed by a booze runner and I told you "that's not okay with me" would you're response be "this is how the system works"?
The fuck are you talking about, who tf is Bob? If you told me "that's not okay with me," I'd tell you I agree. Why tf would I say "this is how the system works?"
If whoever killed Bob got off because he was pardoned by his father, the POTUS, yeah, I'd tell you sorry, that's how the system works. It's a different system for the rich: I want the system as it is applied to them, and then maybe they'll change it. I don't want them getting to walk away because the system is unfair, so they shouldn't have to face it while we still will. That's asinine.
No. What I said about Bidens son is valid. Yes the system often works that way for alot of people. I'm not okay with that. That's exactly my point. That's why I don't mind the pardon for Biden. I understand alot of people don't get pardoned for this obvious miscarriage of justice, I also understand he's getting better treatment because of his father... But to offer another comparison: "Bidens son get enough to eat because he's rich! Some people starve!" I'd reply to that "yes it's unfair alot of people starve because they are poor. That doesn't mean I want Bidens son to starve because of some kind of misguided attempt to make things fair. I don't want anyone to starve. I don't want anyone targeted illegally by police. It sucks only rich people get out of that situation. That doesn't mean I want more rich peoples kids harassed by police any more than I want more rich peoples kids to starve. That's not the avenue I think will solve the problem.
I want Hunter to face the consequences of the system his father spent his entire political career building. Your examples are irrelevant, there are people suffering under the laws and system Biden built, idgaf that "the Republicans play dirty, wahhhh, we need to stoop to their level."
Yeah, we fucking do, no shit Sherlock, but that needs to be done through legislation and loopholes, not protecting your criminal son after fucking over your entire country with your hubris. And spending your lame duck session doing fuck all for anyone but your family makes you a piece of shit who doesn't deserve defense.
The solution is to make them less crappy.
You act like you've come across this grand, "no one else can possibly understand my thought process, maaaaaaan" mountain man guru enlightenment. "I want the system to be more fair for all, and that system to be applied equally to all."
That's your argument, right? That you took multiple examples to try to illustrate? That's how I'm understanding it, I'm almost sure that's what the 12 examples you gave are saying.
Yeah, I agree, but that's not the current system. The current system is the one I described above, yeah, I agree, I wish it was better. Biden could have done something about that over the course of his 40+ year political career. And he did: he actively made it worse, and then gives the country the finger to pardon his criminal son.
Fuck him, and fuck his pardon, I legitimately hope Trump still makes their lives a living hell. Y'know why? Because that's what's in store for me the next four years, and millions of people both like and unlike me. And you're gonna say, "No no no no Blitzo" and write twelve more paragraphs with forty more examples you don't think I could possibly have considered before writing this, I couldn't possibly have comprehended this example, to illustrate that no, that's just "I get kicked in the balls so he should too."
No, it's not, because Biden built the house that we're all going to suffer in. His hubris and arrogance as "America's Savior" fucked us, he didn't pass any meaningful police reform like you keep screaming that we need, he didn't do shit to make the system better, and at the 11th hour he abuses his power to protect his family.
No, fuck him. If he was worried about how the judicial system in the current form he helped create, not some idyllic one you keep saying we need to apply to them, then maybe he should have considered his actions and how they might affect his loved ones.
Y'know, the same bullshit judges say to people when they're in court, after they've been entered into the system that, once again, Biden helped build. The system the rest of us suffer under because him and his party won't do shit about anything other than line their pockets.
You wanna talk about pushing boundaries of your privilege? I went from a cis white male Navy sailor to a trans woman veteran, I'm fully aware of what minorities do and do not have the luxury of.
You're acting like I think only Hunter should face the law, no, I think all of them should have: Trump, his kids, every insurrectionist, every fucking one of them. But guess what? Under the system Biden literally hand picked, he dragged his fucking feet and none of them will face consequences.
And not only will they not face consequences, they're coming back into power, with a plan, because of fucking Biden and the DNC. So yeah, the system is fucked, but they should have to live under it just like we do, regardless of party or affiliation or wealth. Biden had 4 years to do that to Trump, blew it, and then did nothing to help us with his Presidential immunity but made sure his son was taken care of.
Comparing him to Rosa Parks for that is fucking disgusting, and she definitely wouldn't want to be associated with open corruption like that.
It was just a long day. I wasn't mad just rambling
Let's get this out of the way before I explain my thoughts about your arguments. Sorry about the length
Im not a fan of Biden. I've actually hated every presidential candidate and despise the "lesser of two evils" system we've built for ourselves. I generally don't vote at all. I've voted only twice specifically because during only those two elections I felt "lesser of two evils" was important enough to matter.
I could praise Bidens accomplishments but I could also list trumps Accomplishments. I'm not at all brainwashed by the media and dont live in a bubble of people who always agree with me. My political opinion is I hate both of them. I hate most politicians. I've never seen a single politician in my entire 40 years who I felt was worth voting for, and I've seen one who was worth voting against.
I think it's important to add to that I was a trump Supefan before he ran for president. I have an unopened case of trump vodka from when it first came out. Loved trump. Respected him because I'm also a salesman by trade. When he ran for president I saw right thru his salesman bullshit.
My point is don't bother trash talking Biden. I'm fully aware Biden sucks and all politicians suck. I'm also aware Trump is different, he isn't a politician!!! Unfortunately I also know Trump better than the fools that follow him. He's a salesman, a damn good one. He's sold half of America a shitty used car with a crap engine and a fresh coat of paint.
That's why I voted against him even tho I never bothered to vote before. I can see the exact salesman strategies he's using. He has no idea how to run a country, he's just making profit. He's a salesman.
That's where I stand on that so don't bother trashing Biden. I know Biden sucks.
Anyway on to your arguments.
This is how the system works though. Cops can...
We already discussed that. Al Capone CAN bribe. That IS how the SYSTEM worked. It doesn't change the legality. Cops are not supposed to do that. We just don't stop them. The solution is to stop them not expand their reach to upper classes in a misguided attempt at fairness. I don't want to be kicked in the balls. Getting more people kicked in the balls doesn't solve my problem.
Al Capone was taken down on tax evasion, not murder and booze/drug running.
Yep. And Trump and other billionaires want to continue to gut the IRS. The IRS has actually admitted they no longer have the funding to investigate rich people and their tax evasion because the can't afford the long court battles with expensive lawyers. They admitted they don't even try because the funding is gone.
This gives the "both sides" people another fact to throw out there (regardless of justification, Biden still pardoned ...
You poor poor soul ... The "both sides" people don't give a shit. When Obama wanted to approve a supreme Court justice the Republicans demanded he wait a year until the new election. They said it wasn't fair for him to approve one in his last year. Obama waited, he won, they still wouldn't approve it. When trump got elected he filled the seat and bragged that Obama was lazy for not filling it. Fast forward to the last few months of Trump's presidency. A new position in the supreme Court opened. Trump filled it. Democrats pointed out " you said last time it wasn't fair to do that".... The Republicans laughed and did it anyway.
That's the issue with the whole " we got to play fair or it gives them an excuse!!!" Argument. They don't need and an excuse. They aren't going to play fair regardless. By demanding democrats follow some unwritten rules out of tradition, out of principle, to maintain some illusion of high ground... It's just giving the cheaters more of an advantage. The Republicans do not give a crap about tradition or rules. They are cheating every step of the way and breaking every law they can. Because they can.
So maybe fight that instead of wagging your finger and saying essentially 'stooping to their level' nonsense. This is what the game is now. Play it this way or give up. That's life. If your only problem is one side is sinking to the level of the other, but you aren't doing or saying anything about the other... You arent being fair or honest to the situation. If you're idea is letting the other side cheat and the opposition follow every rule and tradition you aren't really interested in fairness. Only handicapping one side in favor of the other
Look at the kettle calling the pot black. It's funny that you think I'm both a liberal and condoning Biden's actions. The institution needs to be thrown out from underneath the structures keeping it in place, and you're not going to convince people to join the cause when you're actively antagonizing them.
Your comment makes no sense.
You came at me because I used the term lib. You know I’m the moderator here, right? 😂I’m not going to ban you. I may even sticky you as the quintessential example of what I’m saying here.edit: blatant mischaracterization and demonstration of hypocrisy on my part
As I addressed in the edit of my original comment: antagonizing people who would otherwise be on your side is a terrible way to gain support. It not only encourages the status quo that has kept people treating politics as team sports, but it also makes the rest of us look bad.
You know I’m the moderator here, right? 😂
Wouldn't be the first time I've argued with a moderator over politics.
antagonizing people who would otherwise be on your side is a terrible way to gain support.
Do you not see yourself, coming here to antagonize people who would otherwise be on your side? Do you have any self-awareness whatsoever?You’re actively fighting with me because I am (rightly) criticizing
youra demagogue for resorting to EXTRAJUDICAL means. If I said anything about Trump doing the same exact thing,you’dlibs would be like, “Hell yeah!”Please take a moment to reflect on your own extreme hypocrisy.I’m done with respectability politics. I made this community to escape the rampant censorship on Lemmy.world of opinions critical of the DNC under the guise of being a safe space. I made it to be free to point out the blind (smug even) partisan hypocrisy
that you’re so adamant about demonstrating for me in this thread.edit: blatant mischaracterization and demonstration of hypocrisy on my part
Do you not see yourself, coming here to antagonize people who would otherwise be on your side? Do you have any self-awareness whatsoever?
In hindsight, I agree that was probably not the best approach on my part. I have a bad habit of writing comments in the moment, then editing them after-the-fact to further clarify.
You’re actively fighting with me because I am (rightly) criticizing your demagogue for resorting to EXTRAJUDICAL means. If I said anything about Trump doing the same exact thing, you’d be like, “Hell yeah!” Please take a moment to reflect on your own extreme hypocrisy.
I doubt I'm going to convince you, but the people saying "good job biden" or pretending that this gross misuse of power is actually some clever "poison pill" are not my demagogue. I'm just sick of people creating further divides inside of the already-fractured left.
I’m done with respectability politics. I made this community to escape the rampant censorship on Lemmy.world of opinions critical of the DNC under the guise of being a safe space.
For what it's worth mentioning, I've managed to get away with criticizing the DNC in various places outside the politics communities. Those ones are a lost cause, though.
Either way, I doubt there's much of a point to continue trying to share my thoughts on the matter. Ban me, don't ban me. Unless specifically @mentioned, I'll refrain from participating in future posts or comments.
I thought long and hard about this exchange just now over a shower and I thought perhaps I’m misattributing you as a liberal partisan hack. Perhaps I read your quote and painted you with the same brush I accuse others of using because something you said aligned to that definition in my head.
You’re right. I HAVE spent too long in echo chambers. Their rampant censorship of basic truths sets off my anger at injustice.
Perhaps you’re just trying to say “be nice to people”.
but what I’m saying is anyone is free to point out any self owns they want on this on this community. Trump supporters are a cornucopia themselves of self-owns. So, I want to set out right now that you’re welcome to post any instance of a self own. Perhaps even my own in this thread in characterizing you incorrectly is in and of itself a self own. 😅
I will not ban it or censor it or do anything to stifle anyone’s free speech. I apologize if I mischaracterized you.
Hey, honestly—I deserve a lot of fault. Like you mentioned in the last comment, I was hypocritically aggressive and antagonistic over what I felt was unnecessary antagonism towards people. That's... ironically stupid, to say the least.
It really would have been best if I took the time to think about my tone before posting instead of trying to fix it with edits after the fact. That would've probably saved a lot of frustration for both of us, and that's something I'm going to be working towards being better about.
Perhaps you’re just trying to say “be nice to people”.
Yep, but also with a bit of an ulterior motive on top of that.
This might be incredibly naive of me, but I don't think most liberals are a completely lost cause yet, and I don't want to preemptively alienate them in the same way that they and conservatives have done to each other. I feel like there's still some common ground on topics like corporate lobbying, 2-party FPTP elections, filibustering, etc. In an us-vs-them environment, I suspect they would be more willing to act against common interests out of spite. Or as the saying goes, "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar".
Although, I'm also probably a hypocrite in saying that since I no longer extend the same courtesy to MAGAs these days...
but what I’m saying is anyone is free to point out any self owns they want on this on this community. Trump supporters are a cornucopia themselves of self-owns. So, I want to set out right now that you’re welcome to post any instance of a self own. Perhaps even my own in this thread in characterizing you incorrectly is in and of itself a self own. 😅
As long as I can find some quality content worth posting without giving myself an aneurysm by reading it, I would be happy to contribute 😄
Thanks for engaging me, though. It’s SO much more productive than me banning your or you blocking me. In the end, I’m so glad we both got to say the things we wanted to say even if it got a bit heated there. I’m happy to call you an ally. I agree that I’d catch more flies with honey; It’s just been me shouting into the void since I watched Bernie get cheated in ‘16 . I’m sure that my anger at the injustice of our political system (from being constantly gaslighted on Twitter by fake-leftist DNC operatives like Brooklyn Dad, Charlotte Clymer, and people like David Brock and Neera Tanden) is palpable even by way of the filter of text.
Thanks for everything…even the ugly parts. And thanks for making me aware of my ugly, ugly, highly embarrassing tendency to mischaracterize the person I am debating (perhaps due to years of being gaslighted by people that did fit those highly reductive definitions to a T). I look back at my name-calling (that I left with strikethroughs) and bow my head in shame.
Ps. I do the SAME thing with the edits! Don’t feel bad.
It’s SO much more productive than me banning your or you blocking me. In the end, I’m so glad we both got to say the things we wanted to say even if it got a bit heated there. I’m happy to call you an ally.
Me too :)
I agree that I’d catch more flies with honey; It’s just been me shouting into the void since I watched Bernie get cheated in ‘16 .
Yeah... they screwed over the only actual progressive politician they had, and it's been sliding quickly down the shit-covered hill since then.
To be totally honest, the DNC caught me by surprise this time. I didn't hold out much hope for anything other than the idea that "Trump = accelerationism," (and the in-hindsight regrettably stupid idea of thinking that delaying it was ever going to help) but they went completely mask-off. Courting conservatives, taking endorsements from ultra-rich celebrities, running on a campaign of "we're your only option tee-hee," and Harris blowing multiple hundreds of millions on useless "consultants." And now Biden pardoning his family after claiming he wouldn't. A complete joke.
I’m sure that my anger at the injustice of our political system (from being constantly gaslighted on Twitter by fake-leftist DNC operatives like Brooklyn Dad, Charlotte Clymer, and people like David Brock and Neera Tanden) is palpable even by way of the filter of text.
Nobody can even blame you for that. Fuck Twitter.
Thanks for everything…even the ugly parts. And thanks for making me aware of my ugly, ugly, highly embarrassing tendency to mischaracterize the person I am debating (perhaps due to years of being gaslighted by people that did fit those highly reductive definitions to a T). I look back at my name-calling (that I left with strikethroughs) and bow my head in shame.
Thank you as well. It got a bit heated, but it was an important learning opportunity and moment of self-reflection for me here. It really made me take the time to look back and think about the interactions where I could have done better and approached things with a more level head and less emotional reactivity.
Ps. I do the SAME thing with the edits! Don’t feel bad.
I'm happy to know I'm not the only one 😄