Despite Suffering
Despite Suffering
August 16, 2024
Despite Suffering
1 Thessalonians 1:6 (KJV) And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
Isn’t it wonderful that the salvation of a soul is not limited by circumstances, afflictions, and suffering? God can swoop in and change the spiritual condition of a soul from standing in opposition to Him to standing in spiritual agreement with Him. It is often true that a meeting with God comes in the most challenging times, not during fun, rest, and relaxation. Each person has a limit of what they can try to handle apart from God and has a different level for falling apart. This is why this verse speaks about much affliction, as typically, a person must come to the end of themselves before they can meet God.
Yes, despite the pain each child of God faces when they try to do things on their own, once they recognize God, seeing Him for the first time, all other things at work in their life dim in comparison to Him and the truth of His Word. Think of Saul actively searching out followers of God and seeking their harm and imprisonment instead of identifying the value God places on each person. Then, one day, God stops Paul on the road and causes him to drop to the ground upon meeting Him personally. God does not make his life easy once he knows the truth; instead, he changes his name to Paul and is with him through a myriad of troubling situations and even times of danger and near-death experiences as Paul chooses to live for God.
Just the same, each person experiences much affliction in their journey but has the joy of the Lord at work despite the hardships and trials they face as they walk with God and sojourn on this wicked earth for a time.
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Yeah, if I were God, I would just skip the whole suffering thing. It's a weird aesthetic. Any deities out there who aren't into BDSM?
Why do people dislike suffering so much? I understand it as an indicator of that something is wrong. So trying to eliminate suffering without figuring out what causes it is like fighting global warming by destroying thermometers in my perspective.
I think that suffering in this life is not ultimately significant, although it has ultimately significant causes. For every person, suffering in this life fits into one of these cases (from a Christian perspective considering also other worldviews):
- If the person ceases to exist, the suffering is forgotten, and there is noone who would experience any suffering.
- If the person goes to heaven, all causes of suffering are resolved.
- If the person goes to hell, there is suffering regardless of suffering in this life. Although not that hell is bad because there is suffering; there is suffering because it is bad (in various ways).
- If the person reincarnates, previous suffering is forgotten, although there may be some karma according to which past lives affect future lives, so buddhists try to reach nirvana, which is similar to the second case.
Cool, what's your address? I'll come torture you since it doesn't matter.
I can't speak from experience, but I think that, if you would just caused me pain without injuring or limiting me, I would not be bothered by that. It would be like with Wolverine, that, when he extends the blades, they cut through his hands, which causes pain, but the hands heal quickly, so he has got used to that.
Although I would not let just anyone torture me if the choice was mine, this worldview entails that I should be able to suffer torture for an ultimately good cause.
It follows from my previous comment that the only way to torture is to make something wrong, and I would not let you do that.
But that was a serious question. What is a people's case against suffering?
The affliction described in the post is the very comment you made and what else worse people do to God and His people, and as you probably know, it gets MUCH, MUCH WORSE. God knew there was no way to avoid this persecution of His children while still protecting everyone's free will. So He turned it into an ultimate good for the faithful.
Romans 5:1 THEREFORE being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Hebrews 11:1 NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
From my perspective, free will has only ever been an illusion, so it's certainly possible to live life without it (everyone who ever existed did), and, without any trace of doubt, the preservation of this illusion is absolutely not a benefit which justifies the cost of suffering.
But let's pretend free will is magically real and the bible is literally true. The god of the bible could use their omnipotence to allow people to make whatever choices they wanted, but to prevent those choices from actually hurting anyone else. Free will does not equal free action. People cannot choose to fly. Therefore, more similar constraints on people's actions could prevent suffering without eliminating free will. The omnipotent god chooses not to take this route. Therefore, god just has an aesthetic appreciation for suffering. I.e., god is into BDSM.
Being upset that God allows suffering and at the same time are upset that God doesn't give wicked men God like power while at the same time restricting their choices to only be good choices? This doesn't make a lick of sense. God is logical, just and loving; this combination does not allow for illogical conditions, such as preserving free will, while limiting choices to good ones.
Something to think about, if God is real and protects your free will above all else, would not His enemy want to convince you that free will is an illusion?
Predicated on the factually false hypothetical that the god of the bible were real, I would be upset that they allow suffering. I would not be upset that they don't give people godlike power (where did you get those words you put in my mouth?). I would prefer that god restricted the consequences of people's choices to prevent those choices from causing harm to others. If god is so enamored of free will, they could still allow free choices, but restrict the consequences of those choices. I.e., I can make the choice to breathe water. "Freely" choose it. But the consequence is that I will fail and die. That's the kind of restriction we already live with. The kind you must believe to have been god's choice. So god could choose to enact more similar restrictions on consequences while preserving free choice.
No conscious entity convinced me that free will is not real. I trust the evidence of my eyes and ears, in combination with the experimental method. That's something you are explicitly told not to do. If god were real, and they were a tyrannical psychopath, would they not want to convince you to trust them by faith instead of using your own common sense to judge their actions? Something to think about.