The only way we lose is if we stand divided.
The only way we lose is if we stand divided.
PS.
I would for vote Kamala. I would vote for a cactus with sunglasses if it had the Democratic nomination. You would do yourself well to consider anything that is weaking the resolve of the anti-trump sentiment straight poison to your brain. We have only one job this novemeber and that is to stop trump. The Supreme Court has given him the status of king. Quit acting like your vote is sacred and start realizing your vote is your final cry before your rights are forfeited.
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There are a lot of hypothetical conversations in this thread about fascism and "November" but for me this election is about something actually happening right now. People are being exterminated by US weapons in Gaza. I will not be voting for an administration that sanctions genocide. There has to be a political price for this kind of behavior.
I can't acknowledge voting for the Democratic party as "the lesser of two evils." To me it looks like Americans are afraid of losing their country, while the rest of the world has been running for cover from American weapons for over a century. The era of American exceptionalism and impunity is over. It's time to rejoin the rest of the world. "Fascism or genocide" is not going to cut it.
"Fascism or genocide" is not going to cut it.
That's the choice we've been given though. Except it's really more like "fascism AND genocide or just genocide".
There are more than 2 choices.
If you consider "throwing my vote away on a third party that doesn't stand a chance in our shitty FPTP system" a choice, then sure I guess
They may not win, but if you want to make a statement then third party is the option that is neither fascism nor genocide.
Ok, except if enough people vote third party, fascism will win. So I'm not sure that "statement" is a very strong one.
If enough votes 3rd party then maybe neither fascism nor genocide will win.
You may even influence future american policy away from fascism/genocide
That's a naive take at best. Until we have voting reform, 3rd parties don't actually have a chance of winning anything. The only thing voting for a 3rd party accomplishes in our shitty FPTP system is pulling votes away from the Democratic option, making the chances better for the Republican option.
That's a naive take at best.
Dude, you are the one saying it's either genocide or fascism.
Until we have voting reform, 3rd parties don't actually have a chance of winning anything.
Agree, but winning isn't the point you wanted to make. You wanted to avoid voting for genocide or fascism.
The only thing voting for a 3rd party accomplishes in our shitty FPTP system is pulling votes away from the Democratic option, making the chances better for the Republican option.
It sends a message to the democratic party that genocide isn't an option, that the primary process is flawed and that you don't belive Biden has a chance against Trump.
If you are sure Trump will win in your state, 3rd party is your best option.
If you are sure Biden will win in your state, 3rd party is your best option.
Only if you are in a swing state do you have to hold your nose and vote for genocide over fascism.
Dude, you are the one saying it's either genocide or fascism.
Nah, that's straight up incorrect, reread my first comment in this thread. The point I made there was that with Biden we get genocide, with Trump we get fascism and genocide.
Agree, but winning isn't the point you wanted to make. You wanted to avoid voting for genocide or fascism.
No, I want to avoid voting for fascism, because we get genocide either way, and there's nothing I can do about that.
It sends a message to the democratic party that genocide isn't an option
Aww, it sends a message, how cute
Only if you are in a swing state do you have to hold your nose and vote for genocide over fascism.
Maybe my personal experience is biased because I've lived in a swing state my entire life, so voting third party has never been a productive option for me. But again, stop being disingenuous. My point has never been "genocide over fascism", it's very clearly always been "genocide over fascism and genocide".
The point I made there was that with Biden we get genocide, with Trump we get fascism and genocide.
And there is a way to vote without encouraging genocide
I want to avoid voting for fascism, because we get genocide either way, and there's nothing I can do about that.
Yes. There is. Vote 3rd party.
Aww, it sends a message, how cute
That's what voting is. In the primaries voting for Bernie meant his message was adopted even though he didn't win.
I've lived in a swing state my entire life
OK. You have a more important message to deliver.
A vote for dems is still a vote for fascism. They've got 3 bills right now in congress to stifle and delegitamize leftist organizations.
What you mean is "disrupting my day to day life fascism and genocide or status quo fascism or genocide"
Ok now you're just calling anything you disagree with "fascism".
Don't take that the wrong way - I'm not trying to defend Democrats delegitamizing leftist organizations. But words have meaning, and when you just start throwing them around at everything that bothers you, you water down that meaning.
Thats just one example of many, regarding democrats exhibiting fascist behaviors and tendencies.
This Insistence that we not call any behavior fascist or any long standing trends problematic until they've reached their final form and theres nothing to be done does way more damage than calling something what it is when it checks 4 out of 5 instead of all 5 boxes
Being less overtly fascist than Project 2025 does not automatically make something not-fascist
You're putting words in my mouth, on top of beating around the bush. Either say what you want to say directly, or don't bother responding.
They’ve got 3 bills right now in congress to stifle and delegitamize leftist organizations.
Which bills are these?
I'm blanking on the third one at the moment but one is to streamline stripping nonprofit status of organizations that "support terrorism" (Palestine) and the other makes any criticism whatsoever of Israel legally antisemitic hate speech which again is largely going to affect leftist orgs but will also allow the board of education to strip funding and accreditation from colleges that allow pro-Palestinian protests.
I would label these as pro zionist bills.
They have nothing to do with government provided public services.
and the other makes any criticism whatsoever of Israel legally antisemitic hate speech which again is largely going to affect leftist orgs but will also allow the board of education to strip funding and accreditation from colleges that allow pro-Palestinian protests.
Reading this bil...
This is the definition of antisemitism the bill adopts: https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
Since the bill applies this definition to title VI, it would apply to any organization receiving federal funds subject to title VI.
Doesn't count all criticism of Israel, you just can't question it's right to self determination, the validity or potential racism of a Jewish ethnostate, or levy any criticism that wouldn't be leveled at literally any other nation in the same scenario. You also probably couldn't speak Ill of AIPAC since that could be deemed demonizing Jews as collective.
Can't strip college accreditation, could strip federal funding - basically they'd be stuck operating under the same kind of restraints a college that doesn't want to follow title IX does.
I find it deeply amusing though that most of the people upset about this one would have been strongly in support of it prior to 10/7/23 as a move to fight white supremacy and neo-Nazis. If it was passed back then and been turned on students now it would have been a real "be careful what you wish for" moment.
Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
How many other countries have situations that match the Israel/Palestinian conflict?
The state of Israel doesn't get to hide behind antisemitism. It is a system of governance, not a person, not a race, not a religion. It cannot be offended.
You can totally criticize Israel, just not for anything they do, say, or stand for.
So glad I can say the shape of their country looks silly #freedom
Really would have saved us all some time if you just said you were another right wing Zionist who wants to stamp out anything left of midright Biden.
Why do you prefer being killed yourself and still watching genocide happen?
While watching it get even more backing from the US
And trump will triple that backing, hell probably send our own guys to do it. Actually stopping the genocide is not on the table rn, sorry
Yeah, if anyone is going to put US boots on the ground, it is Trump
Because for me politics is about principles and voting for my own interests and the interests of the greater good. There are people who are running who represent those interests. The duopoly is all about scaring people into voting for one of them, and I'm not going to respond to scare tactics.
Democracy is also about accepting multiple viewpoints and arguing your own. I won't be intimidated by this kind of thing.
Fam, Im not trying to intimidate you into shit. I'm scared shitless because you're willing to toss entire demographics under the bus for people halfway across the world that probably don't even like you. Im sympathetic to wanting to be principled, but enabling another genocide for the sake of that moral stance isnt worth it. The duopoly doesnt exist because people have no valuea, it exists because aby FTTP system will always produce a duipoly. Even if you want to change that, it'll have to be done through one of the major parties
This narrative that it ends with Palestinians is insane to me. Democrats are by and large openly supportive of this genocide, and its not going to end there. They're cowtowing to the rights hatred of Muslims now, anyone who thinks they won't move onto trans folk next chasing Republican voters because they keep telling the left to eat shit is willfully blind.
I think that's a naive position honestly. The major parties have in their interest the perpetuation of American imperial hegemony, at the expense of people worldwide that it considers expendable, as well as the planetary ecosystem. I have a lot more sympathy for victims of this system than people who have benefited from it (albeit indirectly or unknowingly).