Interesting.

This is all the things for me. I am not a Andrew Tate fan, but he is active in the men's rights communities and MGTOW communities. This made my head explode so I thought it would be worth discussing.

(tbh I think this applies unless and until people marry, for those seeking marriage)

I guess the question would be more what is it to not be a monk?

"sleeping around with randoms"

literally a waste of energy and dangerous

"paying prostitutes"

literally a waste of money

"looking at indecent media"

literally a waste of time

sounds like monk is safer and wastes less energy, money, and time

Delete it if it doesn't belong. Just felt it's suited for this community. I read this exert sometimes. Helps put things into perspective.

Clean Up Your Life

Consider your circumstances. Start small, Have you taken full advantage of the opportunities offered to you? Are you working hard on your career, or even your job, or are you letting bitterness and resentment hold you back and drag you down?

Have you made peace with your brother? Are you treating your spouse and your children with dignity and respect

Do you have habits that are destroying your health and well-being? Are you truly shouldering your responsibilities?

Have you said what you need to say to your friends and family members? Are there things that you could do, that you know you could do, that would make things around you better?

Have you cleaned up your life? If the answer is no, here's something to try: Start to stop doing what you know to be wrong. Start stopping today.

Don't waste time questioning how you know that what you're doing iS wrong, if you are certain that it is.

Inopportune questioning can confuse, without enlightening, as well as deflecting you from action. You can know that something is wrong or right without knowing why.

Your entire Being can tell you something that you can neither explain nor articulate Every person is too complex to know themselves completely, and we all contain wisdom that we cannot comprehend So, simply stop, when you apprehend, however dimly, that you should stop.

Stop acting in that particular, despicable manner.

Stop saying those things that make you weak and ashamed.

Say only those things that make you strong.

Do only those things that you could speak of with honour.

I recalled reading an article about how a lot of middle class people get married and stay married, so this made me wonder if MGTOW / greater divorce / people not marrying is a class issue:

The Marriage Divide: How and Why Working-Class Families Are More Fragile Today

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-marriage-divide-how-and-why-working-class-families-are-more-fragile-today

> Before the 1970s, there were not large class divides in American family life. The vast majority of Americans got and stayed married, and most children lived in stable, two-parent families.2 But since the 1960s, the United States has witnessed an emerging substantial marriage divide by class. First, poor Americans became markedly less likely to get and stay married. Then, starting in the 1980s, working-class Americans became less likely to get and stay married.3 The current state of marriage and family life and the class divisions that mark America’s families can be seen by looking at contemporary trends in marriage, cohabitation, nonmarital childbearing, divorce, children’s family structure, and marital quality.

> Figure 1 indicates that a majority of middle- and upper-class Americans are married, whereas only a minority of working-class Americans are married. This stands in marked contrast to the 1970s, when there were virtually no class divides in the share of adults married, and a majority of adults across the class spectrum were married.

The reason I state this is because I've known and seen a lot of middle class people who are married, or married lifelong (old people "until death do they part"), with some divorces mixed in, but it's not as dramatic as some people speak of marriage and divorce rates.

Hence, say you've grown up within upper or middle classes, around stable marriages: this might give you a totally different (perhaps bluepilled at times) worldview that marriage can work today well still, whereas a working class person who grows up around broken families might conclude the opposite, that marriage is totally broken and unable to be saved as an institution.

( I suppose it is implied that MGTOW would tend statistically to be more working class by the thesis of this post? Also, as the article mentions, the issue doesn't seem to be poverty itself as marriage rates weren't as affected during the Great Depression a century ago - hence the suggestion that class, or socio-economic position today, has some relation to the problem of people marrying or not)

I'm not going to add much more, I'm just curious about what your thoughts are about MGTOW / marriage rates being a class issue (it's not purely economic necessarily, although may correlate with economics for obvious reasons)

\> Men are not making enough money for women to spend

\> Men are expected to achieve a bunch of things, financial and otherwise

\> The tools are simply not there for a lot of men to achieve those things

\> Many men cannot meet these impossible-by-design expectations and are ridiculed for "failure" which is out of their control

previous post: https://hilariouschaos.com/post/673?scrollToComments=true

The remedies are pretty simple, from legalizing discrimination against women in school and work (getting rid of the unConstitutional "Civil Rights Act", the "libertarian" / "independent" solution) so that men will naturally out-compete women, or alternatively make the government give more benefits, privileges, and resources to men (the conservative "authoritarian" solution).

It is doubtful we will see this happen, which means either women will need to lower their expectations in dating (which is also unlikely), or many men and women will be long term single or unable to have families through no fault of their own, and we should talk about how such people ought to cope with such circumstances.

I haven't seen this talked about much although I've put the theory out there on occasion before, perhaps because we are such a post-feminist society

Basically in the past, say a family has a daughter and a son. They would put most investment in to the education for raising the son to be a breadwinner, and the daughter would be married to a male breadwinner of this kind.

Today, the same family "invests" the same amount roughly in to both the educations of the boy and girl, and they are brought up genderlessly to aspire after the same amount of income.

So, this has the effect of roughly cutting the investment in men's education in half, and by women now having an income that they didn't have before, roughly cuts their appreciation of the man's income in half; in total, this means a man would have to work about 4x as hard to be attractive like a traditional man would be (cutting education in half, cutting women's appreciation in half).

Mathematically in a way that just prices a lot of men out of being traditional men, through no fault of their own.

I suppose there are a lot of other more variables to consider, but I was curious if people agree with this analysis or what counter-arguments they may offer about it.

I've been keeping an eye on Men's rights content for some time. I have 3 son's and I have to help them navigate through a very toxic landscape.

The good messaging in MGTOW say's that Men should focus on building themselves and their life. We should lift each other up and encourage each other to be wise, make good decisions, take ownership of our lives and be men.

The bad messaging says that all women are whores and should be used as such or ignored and made fun of.

There is a satisfaction in watching women hit the wall and realize that they have wasted the first part of their lives, but we shouldn't dwell there, we should make sure that we don't waste our lives.

I made this sub as a place holder, I will probably make others communities as well so I can seed the ground and keep things as free speech as possible.

This place will be different however. Users posting nihilist content will get a warning for the first offence and be banned for the second. There are forces out there actively pushing for people to lose hope. Not here.